Hey there all you wayward sons & daughters, welcome back to the Team Winchester Podcast. Up for discussion is episode 8.19: Taxi Driver. Dahne couldn't join Lilith for the podcast this week (because she couldn't stomach watching it again) and she was sorely missed, but Lilith did manage to wrangle up a fan interview, so you wouldn't be stuck with just her babbling for the hour. So come on in and see if you agree, disagree or fall somewhere in between with this week's conclusions. Warning: Lilith's heart was not in it but she promises the next episode will be super duper awesome.
PS: The Team Winchester Podcast cordially invites you to join the Summer of SPN Fan League. Registration begins this Sunday, April 7, 2013. Here's the link to get the ball rolling: http://lilithhellfire.form2go.com/fanleagueapplication.html
Once your application has been processed you will be emailed with details on the next step of registration as well as all of the rules of the league, list of weekly contests, prizes, etc. Hope you decide to join us for all of the fun, games and prizes that will be going down all summer hellatus 2013 long.
Disclaimer - As always the opinions on this podcast are merely Lilith and/or Dahne's opinions. They do not reflect the fandom as a whole or SpoilerTV.
Podcast Break-Down (All times are estimated):
Intro & Small Talk
Ratings - 2:20
Critic Corner - 2:50
Contact Info - 3:45
Discussion Points - 5:15
Nitpicks - 7:00
WTH - 9:30
Favorite Things - 11:50
Least Favorite - 14:45
Music / Trivia - 17:50
Grade and Review - 19:30
Spoilers - 21:00
Fan Interview - 23:15
Plugs - 42:40
Wrap Up - 43:45
Podcast Links:
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E-mail: teamwinchesterpod@gmail.com
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Thanks Lilith and Ray for the podcast. I too found it to be mostly over filled drek.
ReplyDeleteThank you for the podcast.
ReplyDeleteI can understand it was a difficult one for you to put out.
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I admire your optimism in trying to see positive moments, but this episode was just wrong in so many ways.
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If I was going to use a religious metphor, I would classify this episode as 'blasphemy' as opposed to the 'gospel' of Supernatural, in that it went against all of the original 'teachings'.
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It downplayed the whole epic story of Sam and Dean effectively destroying the first seven seasons.
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Anyway, your theory about Naomi being the one in Kevin's head is probably correct.
Crowley is much more direct and would have had no problem taking Kevin. He would have found a sneaky way to do it,
But if it's not Naomi it could be Metatron; we don't really know if he's benevolent or evil, or if he has any relationship with Naomi. Maybe it's been mentioned but I honestly don't remember.
Thanks again for the podcast. :)
"Blasphemy" is a great way to put this episode, it felt as though the producers were all like "Hey, how do you think we could throw everything our fans love the dearest right into the trash bin?" and they came up with "Taxi Driver". This will be the last Supernatural season for me, something I should have done four years ago, and it's sad because I worshipped the show, originally.
ReplyDeleteBlasphemy is my word for this episode too. It is the straw that broke the camel's back for me. To so completely disregard canon in unfathomable. It's like they don't even pretend they know what the show is about anymore and are throwing it in our face that they don't care.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. I am watching the last 5 episodes only for the podcast. If someone else joins Lilith for those, I will be done earlier. Nothing entices me to watch season 9 with the same show runner, writers, and producers. I knew this season would be rough when there was no changeover in the writers' room. I just didn't know they could trash a show so thoroughly that it would go from my favorite to unwatchable in one year.
ReplyDeleteBecause of the violation of all previous canon and their indifference to anything that went before, and Carver allowing this bleep, it's the worst episode of the entire series for me.
ReplyDeleteI'm afraid I'll start hate watching after this. I already do not watch for enjoyment, only for the acting performances and the past. But this sets a precedence of the writing being so painfully bad that it's become unwatchable.
So I wake up and the podcast is posted and there are actually some people who aren't faking that this was an awesome episode... today's going to be a good day, thank you
ReplyDeleteEither these writers believe we are complete idiots, or they themselves are, to think that one can accept what they did to canon, continuity and to the history of this show in this episode.
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And to throw oil onto the flames, it seems as if they are taking a perverse delight in doing it; in taunting us with just how far they are willing to go to destroy all the good that has gone before. I agree.
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Here it wasn't just a couple of errors; it was the scientific destruction of Supernatural.
I just don't understand :(
Although season six had some low moments, I have to say I enjoyed it.
ReplyDeleteThere was a logic to it; and the build-up to the climax was well crafted; there was always a lot of interesting stuff going on, and once we found out that Sam was acting strangely for a reason, I really enjoyed Robo-Sam.
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It would have been extremely difficult for anyone to follow the Kripke story-arc but I think she did ok.
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As for season seven, I enjoyed most of it up until a certain moment, but this season there has only been one episode that shone for me and another couple that I liked..
Well you go from Sam not looking for Dean and go from there. None of them have changed and Jeremy Carver brought a season 4 mentality towards Sam and cannon has become a game of what can we change or ignore.
ReplyDeleteThat's when i knew canon no longer existed and they were just making things up as they went. They can't even keep this year's canon straight much less be bothered to actually look up what happened in other seasons. Bah! A pox on all of them!
ReplyDeleteI almost always give a long term show 2 years of failure before I give it up but this season has been so bad with so few bright spots I can actually count them on one hand. I have loved Supernatural for so long that I just can't watch this train wreck any longer. I will watch season 9 in a marathon over the summer. That way if it sucks it will only ruin 2 weeks instead of an entire TV watching season. Plus then I will know if season 10 even deserves a chance. I have cancelled my pre-order of season 8 though.
ReplyDeleteI liked season 6 for the most part. RoboSam was funny. Season 7 had great standalones. This season neither the mytharc nor the standalones are worth the time.
ReplyDeleteThey really have removed all the blocks with this one. They tore apart the foundation with 8.01 by having Sam not look for Dean. Then they started chipping piece by piece from the structure. This episode was letting loose the wrecking ball. There is nothing left of Supernatural but ruble, scattered fragments, and the memory of what it once was.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. It is an F episode for me. I have never hated Supernatural so much as this episode. It beat Bitten for suckage. Not even Bobby, Benny, and Crowley could save it from the canon obliteration.
ReplyDeleteYou know how awful i think this episode is. Even the idea of watching it again makes the bile in my stomach turn.
ReplyDeleteAnd to think I didn't we were going to get any comments this week...
ReplyDeleteThe acting in the Jensen, Ty and Amanda Tapping scenes was amazing, and I did appreciate it, and normally it's more than enough for me to enjoy muself. But I felt burning hate for this episode.
ReplyDeleteAnd I'm not alone. I've seen many people, very loyal fans - you among them - say that this was the last staw, and mean it. I'm not there yet, but I'm afraid of hate watching. I never would have thought that of SPN. They'll need to pull a miracle, and I don't see much promise of that in the spoilers for the rest of the season - not for the SPN I love anyway.
I generally believe in giving shows at least 2 years before I write them off but I just can't. I can't. Supernatural was my favorite series by far, the one I was most obsessed over by far. Even Buffy and X-Files couldn't compare to the amount of time and energy I put into Supernatural and all because I loved and believed in it and wanted to promote it to others. I rejoiced with other fans and cheerlead during seasons 6 and 7 while others were unhappy. However I cannot fathom these brothers I don't recognize or understand. I cannot believe that 7.5 years of canon has been tossed away like the time and energy people spent on it was nothing. I hope it turns around but nothing less than a massive retcon of the whole season is going to work for me. I hate to go out this way instead of in the blazing glory of an awesome series finale but I have already written my own alternate season 8 premiere and that's where my head canon is going to leave it.
ReplyDeleteI have seen the same. Really loyal fans are leaving because of this awful episode. And by the way, I didn't think the Jensen and Ty scene were amazing. Like the fan interview said , I think it was overplayed. Jensen was a little over the top with his emotions. But I respect your opinion =D.
ReplyDeleteSam not looking for Dean was definitely the point of origin of it all.
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If they had handled that differently, even the Amelia/ Benny stuff could have been interesting, but you can't make a character whom you know would have acted in a certain way, do something so OOC without an explanation and, 'my world imploded and I hit a dog ' isn't one!
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The weird thing is that the writers keep harping on about it; either they are going to have a big reveal/ retconn that changes our 'perception' or they just like to wave it in front of us like a red rag in front of a bull!
Yep.There are plenty way of seeing the eps without shelling out good money.
ReplyDeleteI'm not interested in the extras, especially this year! So, I'll keep my cash in my pocket.
I am more than happy to give fan interview for the next episode, if you think I am the right person to do so.
ReplyDeleteI am sorry to say but, Pod cast with just one person is monotonous and boring
Can I hope that the "retro" podcasts will still happen?
ReplyDeleteRight? My only wish is that they did Apocalypse again (this time for real, and please bring back the anti-Christ) and ended the series once and for all.
ReplyDelete"Overplayed" is an exact definition of Jensen and Jared's acting. I like the characters, Dean is very funny and etc but they are way too over the top in the acting to the point they make more drama than Gossip Girl.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I've given it four years, I'm way too tired of being bored every week. The same thing happened to Heroes but at least with that one they had the decency of giving it the axe.
ReplyDeleteoh yes, we're working on that right now!
ReplyDeleteI am very excited about the retro podcasts. In fact I am working on Home and Asylum today so we can tape it tomorrow. It's good to be able to talk about what I love about Supernatural instead of what I hate.
ReplyDeleteGenerally I think the acting and VFX are the only things still good about the show. However I was ranting so much about the writing in this one, I admit that I wasn't paying as much attention to the acting.
ReplyDeleteI will be back for the next podcast at a minimum and for the retro episodes. Originally I thought 60+ minutes was far too long too, but the majority of feedback that I got was that 1 hour was about right.
ReplyDeleteI actually pre-bought the episodes on iTunes through a subscription like I always do so I have all the season 8 episodes whether I want them or not. I will not be subscribing to season 9 though.
ReplyDeleteI like the feel of a roundtable discussion. Though you definitely also need a Dean fan POV too for balance. ;)
ReplyDeleteSorry, I haven't had time to listen to the podcast, but wanted to comment on some of the discussion here.
ReplyDeleteThere were certainly big plot holes, but I differ in the size of them. After season 6 and several rewatches of it, I theorized that Crowley's objective was never the souls. In fact it didn't even make sense that he could use them since he's not an angel. He was doing what demons always do - what Ruby did to Sam - and pulling a long con on Cas, tempting him with something he needs while working to isolate him from his friends, with the objective of getting him to fall. If this is true, would explain why there may have been a little-known door to Purgatory in Hell and why Crowley didn't use it to get the souls - why he still approached Cas with his plan.
After the angel civil war and Cas killed thousands of angels, I assumed that the balance of power between Heaven and Hell would be shifted more toward Hell's side, so I wasn't shocked to see a more powerful Crowley this season, and one who might have grabbed Bobby away from a weakened Heaven.
On Sam rescuing Bobby easily while it took 6 angels to rescue Dean - I think it's been established that there are different sections of Hell, and that Lilith and Alistair had an objective with Dean. Dean would have been a prize catch who was much more closely guarded than Bobby. He was the key to starting to the Apocalypse. I also don't have a problem with the idea that a reaper could easily cross over to Purgatory. That's what reapers do - ferry souls to after-life worlds.
Purgatory has not been portrayed as easily accessible - it took a reaper (a creature that is not usually on the Winchesters' payroll, or the death of a friendly monster) to reach it. And the story is still that Sam didn't even know where Dean was.
There were still a lot of other plot holes, such as the corporeal form of reapers, but TBH, this stuff has been happening for three years now, so I'm not sure why there's so much sudden reaction. Remember the impenetrable cage of Lucifer, which took the breaking of 66 seals to open, and how Cas casually strolled down there in season 6 and grabbed Sam's body? Or how Sam went a year without sleep in season 6 but was close to death from lack of sleep after 6 days in season 7? And then there's the Bobby ghost thing. Someone wrote Bobby (a non-corporeal spirit) as drinking a bottle of beer. This particular pair of writers wrote Sam as guessing that Bobby might be tied to the flask in one season 7 episode and then in the very next episode that they wrote had Sam shocked when it dawned on him that Bobby only appeared because of the flask.
I think these two writers, along with Adam Glass, really need to go to be replaced by writers who can follow the mythology and who have a better understanding of both Sam and Dean, as well as an interest in writing for both characters. But I don't get the sudden outrage over something that's been happening for three years now.
Saw something interesting today. A series on Current TV called "The Last 24" chronicles the last day of certain celebrities. One I watched was on John Belushi. In the course of interviewing co-workers, one was a writer from Second City Comedy Troupe. Eugenie Ross-Lemming.
ReplyDeleteFurther backing my theory that comedy writers can't write scary.
Very interesting. They should have them write a comedy and see if people like it. They couldn't possibly get a worse reception than they've been getting with the other episodes they have written.
ReplyDeleteThank you! I like both Jensen and Ty, but I didn't find anything amazing about their scenes either. I'm not sure what everyone has been raving about! I'm glad it's not just me!
ReplyDeleteCrowley wanted Castiel to get the souls to shift the balance of power from Raphael. Raphael wanted the apocalypse to still happen and Lucifer and Michael free to do it. Crowley didn't want that so aligned himself with Cas who, lets face it, isn't the brightest bulb in the pack and looked to be a lot more manipulatable than Raphael. In simple terms, their agendas ( for different reasons ) aligned. I don't see any indication Crowley was stringing Cas along and we shouldn't have to think that hard anyway. It's a nice thory but kind of a 20/20 hindsight one to attempt to explain this season's major cannon oversights.
ReplyDeleteAs for reapers being able to pop into Purgatory, you'd think Death might have mentioned that since they do all work for him. Creating an surprise lunar eclipse seems like such overkill considering how simple it really was. The reason people are so disgusted now is that a simple slip in canon here and there is understandable, but making it completely irreverent makes you wonder what you've been watching for the last 8 years. Even medical dramas and procedurally can keep thei own mythology straight. It's waaaay more important for a mythology show to do that.
For me, I can overlook some mistakes, but not this many contradictions -- some in the same ep! Sam easily pops into Purgatory and a few scenes later Naomi is explaining how so many angels died to rescue Cas from there. Did they not have a reapers phone number either?
It's just way too much neglect or laziness on the part of the writers on a show that used to be clever and intelligent. It's sad and I, for one, can't see anything to keep me involved. Carver said at the beginning that this season would be all about perception, but with only 4 eps left, unless they pull a Bobby Ewing in the shower thing and totally twist the OOC characters and sloppy in attention to canon, I can't for the life of me see how they can consider this season a true season of the Supernatural Kripke created.
Agreed 100%. Crowley only loses if Lucifer is released so his interests and Cas' aligned. No need to invent other theories to try to make current plot lines make sense. They just don't. Death is the most powerful person we have on the show thus far so I find it really hard to believe he doesn't know the ins and outs of all the realms since he sends his workers to them. Taxi Driver was a wash in plot and a wrecking ball to canon. At this point I am hoping for the dream theory. This is not a true season of Supernatural to me either. At best it is a fifth generation knockoff made with shoddy materials and falling apart at the seams when it arrives.
ReplyDeleteAnd it could have so easily been done to fit into canon. They still have the gate in Wyoming. A reaper being able to open that (even witout the Colt) is far more believable than them just popping into Purgatory. Are we to believe they transport monster souls too? And why have a low ranking demon give them the name of the reaper? Like Demon #4 knows this but it didn't occur to Crowley -- a former crossroads demon-- all of season 6? They know Tessa. They have Roy LaGranges wife's book with a spell to bind a reaper. It would have been so much better to use canon to get them where they needed to be instead of ignoring it just to kill off Benny. I came up with an entire rewrite of the ep, and I'm not even a professional screenwriter. It just shouldn't be that hard to tell a good, believable (to the extent of established canon) story.
ReplyDeleteThat explains a lot. Just because you write sketches doesn't mean you can write everything else. Why do I get the feeling hers weren't that funny?
ReplyDeleteOccasionally there have been some great episodes (the one with the werewolf this season was awesome), but the ridiculous ones outshine them by far ("Season 7! Time For a Wedding!", the title speaks for itself) and even when the main storyline gets interesting (the whole tablet stuff can be pretty exciting once in a while) they pack it up with cliches (Three trials? Really?) and repeat what has already been done. Right now, after all we've seen of the Winchesters, they sound like two douchebags to me, even if funny douchebags. I can't stand Dean and his "I'm super manly but I'm about to cry because I want the ladies to think I have a soft side" face.
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