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Supernatural - Episode 8.10 - Torn and Frayed - Producer's Preview

Jan 15, 2013

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241 comments:

  1. ScottAJanuary 15, 2013 at 10:29 PM

    Nothing like brother angst to get the fandom revved up.


    They got Dean out of hell and Castiel out of Purgatory but can't get poor ole Alfie away from Crowley?


    Liking Carver less and less.

    ReplyDelete
  2. VeronicaJanuary 15, 2013 at 10:31 PM

    Dean you have the most adorable angel right in front of you. Don't make Cas jealous

    ReplyDelete
  3. María EmiliaJanuary 15, 2013 at 10:40 PM

    Hope this episode will bring us a lot of Dean and Cas dialogues and scenes, as well as Team Free Will. Hope Samandriel is alright, poor little thing! Since it's Cas' last episode for a while, I will try to enjoy it as much as I can. BRING HIM BACK SOON!!!

    ReplyDelete
  4. RhaenyssJanuary 15, 2013 at 10:46 PM

    OH MY GOD, I'm so excited! I'd argue on 'the most adorable angel' bit, though. Also, Sam and Dean need to fix things asap, I want my Team Free Will back. Can't wait for tomorrow!

    ReplyDelete
  5. lsbloomJanuary 15, 2013 at 10:47 PM

    Apparently putting Sam in focus when he talks is not important. ha. I HATE Carver. What does Heaven's cutest angel have to do with finding Words of God?!!?!? Where is the plot!!?! Stop brother fighting.

    ReplyDelete
  6. tvmonkeyJanuary 15, 2013 at 10:49 PM

    not regarding this episode-


    just read spoiler that says that Sam and Dean will be going all western again and donning cowboy hats and all once again in a future episode? The boys will be heading to Idaho where they will meet an edgy cowgirl named Ellie?

    ReplyDelete
  7. Justyna KubicaJanuary 15, 2013 at 10:52 PM

    Save Samandriel! He really is the nicest! And for everyone's sake, I need Dean & Sam to resolve their issues! No more angst!

    ReplyDelete
  8. JessJanuary 15, 2013 at 11:03 PM

    Yeah I hope will get some quality Dean n' Cas time before Cas disappears from the show AGAIN for a while. Writers need to stop killing him off/hurting him etc. I just miss Cas and TFW working together.

    ReplyDelete
  9. AllyJanuary 15, 2013 at 11:08 PM

    It hurts seeing Samandriel like this, I can't barely watch this scene with him! I hope we have lots of TFW and Dean and Cas scenes! I'll miss Cas while he's gone for the other episodes!

    ReplyDelete
  10. chris684January 15, 2013 at 11:18 PM

    While I still don't buy the source of the conflict between Sam and Dean it's nice to see some consistency in tone in two episodes a row. When's the last time that's happened? Sam looked pissed. I'm going to hold Carver at his word that there is some resolution in this episode.

    ReplyDelete
  11. LaurienWinkelJanuary 15, 2013 at 11:23 PM

    Nah Jeremy had a cold :-(

    ReplyDelete
  12. tvmonkeyJanuary 15, 2013 at 11:24 PM

    apparently there are supposed to be some answers in this episode and lots of brotherly stuff going on while they try to save the angel, the mythology see,s like its going to provide and nice back drop to the brothers story.

    ReplyDelete
  13. chris684January 15, 2013 at 11:25 PM

    That works for me. Thanks!

    ReplyDelete
  14. tvmonkeyJanuary 15, 2013 at 11:25 PM

    not going to happen, apparently we have to wait till episode 13 for that actual conversation between the brothers to take place

    ReplyDelete
  15. LisaJanuary 15, 2013 at 11:26 PM

    Can't wait until tomorrow! This will be the episode that sees Carver get the boys back on the same page. I hadn't heard this was Cas' last episode for awhile - where is that coming from?

    ReplyDelete
  16. RhaenyssJanuary 15, 2013 at 11:42 PM

    Oh ok, then I'd like some actual talking between the two. I've seen the promo pics from 8x11, and it seems they're working together, so something must've changed. We'll see I guess.


    I wonder what they'll do to Cas this time, though. He'll be missing for 5 episodes after this one.

    ReplyDelete
  17. JessieJanuary 15, 2013 at 11:56 PM

    I wish they would get rid of the angels altogether.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Miss SupernaturalJanuary 15, 2013 at 11:58 PM

    It was posted here.. Episode Trial And Error. It was labeled as episode 13, but according to Dark UFO later, it was changed to episode 8.14.

    http://www.spoilertv.com/2012/11/supernatural-episode-813-title-change.html


    Like you, I'm with my eyes open for this episode because Suzanne Gomez twitted that it'll have powerful brotherly stuff. *Crossing fingers it'll be something really good*

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  19. Miss SupernaturalJanuary 16, 2013 at 12:17 AM

    I'm not sure it's fair from Sam to put this decision over Dean's shoulder. Both of them made mistakes and both of them need to own them.

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  20. DahneJanuary 16, 2013 at 12:25 AM

    I am so, so, so sick of brother discord. This does not make me optimistic.

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  21. DahneJanuary 16, 2013 at 12:27 AM

    Powerful isn't the description I'd use Jeremy. Annoyingly drawn out for no reason comes closer. Maturity seems your code word for nighttime soap opera, non-evolving communication skills, and emoangsting for the sake of emoangst.

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  22. Bruce_FJanuary 16, 2013 at 12:28 AM

    I so do not believe that "once and for all" crap for a second.

    ReplyDelete
  23. DahneJanuary 16, 2013 at 12:31 AM

    That's because you've seen an episode of this show before.

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  24. Bruce_FJanuary 16, 2013 at 12:34 AM

    Ha! Right on. Carver doesn't have enough credibility with me to take a phrase like "once and for all" seriously.

    ReplyDelete
  25. DahneJanuary 16, 2013 at 12:41 AM

    Carver created this whole mess by creating his own canon, passing it off as past canon and then extending this brother rift to frankly unbelievable lengths. I don't think he wants to end it. He seems to think Supernatural is Being Human. He lost credibility with me when he dumped 7 years of story and character to create this miasma.


    Although in all fairness I wouldn't have believed a "once and for all" comment from Kripke or Gamble either. Supernatural never does anything once and for all.

    ReplyDelete
  26. Miss SupernaturalJanuary 16, 2013 at 12:42 AM

    OMG, I totally agree with you, especially the first paragraph.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Bruce_FJanuary 16, 2013 at 12:43 AM

    Carver and his revisionist history is not only disappointing as far as the season goes but he's taken it so far beyond tolerable that it has obliterated much of the goodwill he has built with the fan base over the years.

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  28. DahneJanuary 16, 2013 at 12:55 AM

    Agreed. It feels like the tide is slowly turning against him. From what I'm seeing it's mostly shippers who are happy with him right now, although that might change depending on what happens in this episode. An increasingly vocal non-shipping group is stepping up to make their concerns heard and this producer's preview will do nothing to make that change.

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  29. Bruce_FJanuary 16, 2013 at 1:08 AM

    It's all very sad because the majority of viewers had a renewed sense of optimism about the show when his return was announced. I think maybe people wouldn't feel as strongly as they do if their hopes weren't raised so high to begin with.

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  30. sue beattieJanuary 16, 2013 at 1:11 AM

    Thats what I don't understand the it all depends on Dean; why does it depend on Dean. Sam shoulders some of the blame. Dean is ticked because of Sam not looking for him and running from family business. And guessing Sam keeps on putting hunters on Benny which is not helping their issues. Dean can be accused of the fake text message but right now thats about it. But Sam must shoulder some of blame. I mean this is what I don't get Dean disappeared with a monster now Dean just recently did that in Time after Time. Now if you can look for Dean that time then why not when Dick roman takes him to Purgatory?? I guess I am confused on Sam's issues thats why don't shoulder blame on Dean because you got stuff to answer to also and Dean has been spelling them out for him. So thats my confusion on the relationship and what needs mending. So I agree don't put everything on dean man up and take some of the blame.

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  31. aqueleoGuiJanuary 16, 2013 at 1:25 AM

    How do know he'll be missing for 5 episodes after this one?

    ReplyDelete
  32. Miss SupernaturalJanuary 16, 2013 at 1:26 AM

    Yep... I agree that the text message wasn't a good move (even though it pretty much saved Sam's life, Dean intending this result or not) and Dean has to apologize for that. But everything that lead to that decision was made by Sam, too, so yes, I would love if Sam would acknowledge his part of the blame and not only make another ultimatum to Dean like he did in a previous episode (which Dean obeyed, by the way). I think it's time for Sam to show that he wants to stay with Dean too, if he really does.

    About the looking for Dean stuff... The problem with all that is that Sam not looking was, is and will always be out of character for me, but in Carver's eyes was the right thing to do (partially because of that fake promise). I would like if Sam at last told Dean that he's sorry that it hurt him not looking. Instead, I'm starting to think that Dean will agree with Sam that the most "mature" thing to do was not looking for him and apologize. And that will be what will make the brothers start to be ok again. :\

    ReplyDelete
  33. RhaenyssJanuary 16, 2013 at 1:31 AM

    i don't have the source right now, but i seem to recall Misha said in an interview (i think) that he's on a break after 8x10 for 5 episodes?
    sorry, i really can't remember where i've seen it

    ReplyDelete
  34. RhaenyssJanuary 16, 2013 at 1:33 AM

    Thank you for this. It's always Dean that has to bend over and take it (be it Sam or Cas or whoever and whatever).

    ReplyDelete
  35. KatAdams03January 16, 2013 at 1:37 AM

    I don't know what Carver is doing with the show. I'm not sure what to think. Carver has made an absolute mess of the brothers and I'm tired of the show skipping over all of Sam's issues and just focusing on Dean. Dean's the only one it depends on. Sam has a role in their relationship! They have both made some serious mistakes, why not address that? If you are going to force crappy drama and have your characters do some SERIOUSLY unlikeable things, then they BOTH need to be held accountable for it. It shouldn't just depend on Dean. I'm sick of the conflict, but I don't want it resolved by only addressing Dean's problems. I'm beyond disappointed in Carver. He's twisting the show to fit his idea of it and the characters along with it. I don't know how Jenny Klein is going to do, but I really hope we get to see both sides addressed.

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  36. chris684January 16, 2013 at 1:37 AM

    Can we at least wait until the episode airs before launching a Sam hating campaign about what this scene does or doesn't mean? And this is directed to everyone in this thread.

    ReplyDelete
  37. DahneJanuary 16, 2013 at 1:41 AM

    People definitely had problems with Gamble so I think they thought that when Carver took over those problems would go away. Instead we have the same problems but even worse and for a longer time, plus new ones. Gamble at least resolved her pointless, contrived, and extremely boring brother rift in 4 episodes. This one has no end in sight. Gamble at least pretended to have an overarching mytharc. You'd be hardpressed to remember there was even a quest supposed to be going on this season. At least it looks like we will be making some headway on this problem next episode.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Miss SupernaturalJanuary 16, 2013 at 1:41 AM

    Just to be clear, it's not Sam I'm having problem with, it's with Carver and what he is doing to both characters and especially their relationship. And I don't think it's a "hate campaign" only to say that I wish that both of them owed their mistakes.



    That said, fair enough. Wait and see. Sadly, I don't trust Carver to make any of this better, though.

    ReplyDelete
  39. Miss SupernaturalJanuary 16, 2013 at 1:47 AM

    Yes, this. Thank you.

    ReplyDelete
  40. sue beattieJanuary 16, 2013 at 1:49 AM

    Not Sam hateing just confused on the part of the scene with the fact Dean must shoulder some of blame. I will wait and see how it plays out but it takes both to mend the brothers and see where they are going not just Dean and from way Dean looks guessing he is not giving into Sam's demands that easily.

    ReplyDelete
  41. chris684January 16, 2013 at 1:50 AM

    It's the need to always take sides that starts the brother wars. I could debate your points (and the other ones as well) but I'm obviously not in the mood to be in this thread right now, and I'll probably end up saying something I regret.

    ReplyDelete
  42. Peter JorJanuary 16, 2013 at 1:52 AM

    I'm so tired of the brother angst. I think it has drained all the chemistry and fun out of their scenes together - I think their scenes are huge buzzkills. This started years ago but in seasons 7 and 8 it has made zero sense for the characters...at least in seasons 4 and 5 I understood. I don't understand why this had to be done, I think it's dragged the season down, and is lazy writing.

    ReplyDelete
  43. Peter JorJanuary 16, 2013 at 1:53 AM

    I always enjoy Dean and Cas scenes together. I guess we might as well enjoy it before the 6 episode absence starts. Way to use one of your best assets.

    ReplyDelete
  44. RachelJanuary 16, 2013 at 1:54 AM

    I am so excited! I love this season so much!

    ReplyDelete
  45. RachelJanuary 16, 2013 at 1:55 AM

    me too <3 I am gonna miss Cas so much.

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  46. Peter JorJanuary 16, 2013 at 1:55 AM

    I think the whole idea is that until Dean says Sam was right to not look for him, their relationship will be broken. That's a huge and ugly burden to put on a character - "Hey Sammy, I'm sorry for not being happy that you didn't look for me. I promise I'll get over it and the next time you think I'm dead, have a nice party!" But apparently this is mature.

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  47. AndrezzaJanuary 16, 2013 at 1:56 AM

    Can't wait!!! Can´t :') Dean, Sam,Cas and soooo cute Samandriel!!!

    ReplyDelete
  48. Peter JorJanuary 16, 2013 at 1:56 AM

    Misha said he'll be gone for 5. From the #16 episode summary I doubt he'll be in that one either. So that's 6 episodes.


    So many fans love Cas and yet we barely see him, unless he's being tortured. I don't understand the logic.

    ReplyDelete
  49. P E A C H * F U Z ZJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:00 AM

    Very excited to see Team Free Will reunited! :)

    ReplyDelete
  50. P E A C H * F U Z ZJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:00 AM

    I'm very happy with the season so far, and happy with Castiel's inclusion into the series too.

    ReplyDelete
  51. P E A C H * F U Z ZJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:01 AM

    Aww, Samandriel is such a cutie! Love him and Charlie. Two of the most adorable characters on the show thus far! :P

    ReplyDelete
  52. Miss SupernaturalJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:01 AM

    Yeah, I said something similar bellow. Sadly, I think that's where Carver will lead the brothers, too. The worst part is that I don't think Carver has even idea of how illogical this is, especially for the Winchesters who disappear time from time and rely on each other to be found.



    But that's the new and shiny Supernatural Canon, all made by Jeremy Carver.

    ReplyDelete
  53. Peter JorJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:05 AM

    I'm not sure which shippers you mean. The Sam/Dean brotherly bond shippers aren't happy. I guess Dean/Cas shippers are happier, but then, Cas is barely around and we don't know if he will make it out of this torture stuff, so, mixed feelings.


    I don't know if the casual viewer is as bothered. For me the main problems are lethargic episodes, lack of continuity, and pointless rehashing.


    They are clearly moving toward a goal of Sam and Dean reconnecting, so Sam/Dean brotherly bond fans can have that, but unfortunately the story has been so poorly written (especially Sam's part) and forced.

    ReplyDelete
  54. chris684January 16, 2013 at 2:06 AM

    There is a silver lining in here in that Sam is showing emotions again. Sera did a better job of squashing the brother fights, but it was at the expense of Sam's personality. Her solution was that Sam would not react to anything.

    I'm still holding out a tiny tiny sliver of hope that Carver might pull something out that makes this make sense. My thought is that if Sam did start obsessively looking for Dean, and maybe stepped over a line, that would explain why he retreated to normal and why he's not volunteering any information to Dean. My point is that Carver can still pull this off.

    ReplyDelete
  55. Peter JorJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:07 AM

    I'd say we've seen Sam's view; he explained his view to Dean, and we've seen his happiness with Amelia. What we didn't get was his missing Dean, but given that Carver has said Sam's view is right, that he was mature to not look for Dean, I don't think he intended to slight Sam. It's just sucky writing.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Peter JorJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:08 AM

    Misha said he won't be in 5 straight episodes. Looks like, if the description for #16 is right, he might not be in that either.


    If you want to see more Cas you may want to let the show or the CW know.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Peter JorJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:15 AM

    Exactly. I like Sam. I don't want Sam to apologize. I just want it to be over. I want Sam to say, "You're back, you have a second chance, so do I, we're going to do this," and it ends. No more angst and woe and more angst. Unfortunately this is not what the show is telling. Instead it's all about what Dean did wrong.

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  58. ValeJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:15 AM

    My hats off to Jeremy Carver! I'm loving what he is doing with season 8 and I understand his vision. Dean and Sam have had to many years conflict without resolution and pent up frustration. They aren't perfect people and they haven't been perfect brothers. I've wanted a real head-to-head Dean/Sam discussion since the whole Ruby orderal. That all was overlooked and just swept under the rug as has every major conflict that has surfaced between the brother. They have always had hunting at the forefront and a looming apocalypse. But now they are just focused on each other. Sometimes you need to be pulled apart in order to come back stronger than before. I praise Carver for taking a serious look at the brother's relationship over the past 8 years and not just trying to surgarcoat it and wank everything away as though they don't have issues to talk about. I also hate this myth that Dean and Sam don't argue. Am I the only one that has watched the entire series? This isn't the first season where Dean and Sam are head to head on issues. But this is the first season that brings this conflict up INTENTIONALLY to finally RESOLVE it. People complaining about it seem to be very insecure that somehow the brother's bond will be broken and forever damaged but if prior years of conflict haven't done that why would that happen now? People need to grow up. The characters need to grow up. This is a way of doing that. I'm also very happy to see the angels storyline is back because the demon storyline seems rather hollow once you know there is an entire HEAVEN up above full of angel soldiers and warriors. The series opened up that door in season 4 and you can't just close it and pretend angels don't exist and aren't around when the world is facing major issues. Lastly, I'm delighted that Castiel is in season 8. Since his introduction in season 4, I have viewed him as an irreplaceable part of the Supernatural family. For me, he's another Winchester brother. Misha's chemistry with Jensen is incredible as well and it's always a delight to see Dean and Castiel together onscreen. They have such a natural and beautiful ease with one another. Supernatural is fortunate to have been able to cultive two powerhouse relationships that people are passionately drawn to in Dean/Sam and Dean/Castiel. I hope both of these relationships move forward and eventually heal, grow, and strengthen!

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  59. Peter JorJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:18 AM

    I just don't know why. I want it to be over with the melodrama. I don't understand why Dean needs to feel ashamed or wrong for his behavior. I don't know how much further the character can fall - he just has an occasionally seen angel and a vampire who now has to stay away from him because otherwise someone close to both of them will probably get killed. And there's Sam/Dean angst and misery on top of this. Don't make the character apologize for being upset that his brother didn't look for him. Just move on.

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  60. rehabberJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:19 AM

    I watched Being Human last night and saw Carver & wife wrote the ep, and have gotten very worried about the rest of SPN. I am enjoying this year so far, but don't want it left that Sam did not look for Dean and did not really care he was gone. This is just not our Sam.

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  61. ValeJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:20 AM

    LOL. Oh please. What non-shipping section are you talking about that makes you say the "tide is slowly turning against him?" TIDE? You represent or speak for the tide? lol the only people I have seen actively against him are the silent majority people who have been against supernatural since the season 7 finale, aka pre-Carver. I'm interested to know where I can find this mass of people turning the tide against Carver? Honestly your hyperbolic language would be amusing if it wasn't so grating. The only thing I see on twitter and tumblr when I go on the non shipping tags such as "Supernatural" are people happy. Most want the brothers back together, but that doesn't mean they are going against the writers or the showrunner. Angst, drama is part television.

    ReplyDelete
  62. Peter JorJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:21 AM

    Right. Cas adds so much to the show, he has great chemistry with everyone, and is such a rich character. I wish we saw him more.

    ReplyDelete
  63. rehabberJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:23 AM

    I am saying a prayer that he does pull it off and I have not given up hope and have enjoyed most of this season, other than sucky Sam. I want brother Sam back.

    ReplyDelete
  64. Peter JorJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:24 AM

    I totally agree with you about Dean and Cas. Their scenes have been the highlight of the season, for me. Very good.


    I think I'd care more about the Dean/Sam conflict if it had been over something more believable and if they'd shown Sam's side better. Mostly I just want that part over, because it's draining.

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  65. chris684January 16, 2013 at 2:26 AM

    And sucky Dean.

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  66. ValeJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:29 AM

    lol the leviathon storyline was an overaching mytharc? I really can't remember. I mean, if you blinked, you missed it! I'd rather have the boys on a subtle "quest" than have this pressing leviathon "invasion" which was completely ignored for like 70% of the season and only treated with importance when the writers remembered.

    ReplyDelete
  67. ValeJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:31 AM

    Season 6 & 7 Sam are the worst Sam's in the series. At least now even with people arguing that some of Sam's actions are OOC, you can see Sam is being himself for the most part. Season 6 he was drowned out by the souless drama and season 7 we had the crazyville storyline that came straight out of a soap opera. all of that overshadowed Sam. It's like Sam's been gone for 2 years! Season 8 has brought him back, even if you have critiques, he's more present NOW than he has been in a long time.

    ReplyDelete
  68. Annemarie PrescottJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:32 AM

    dude Gamble was the bomb s7 what are you talking about. The brother rift was pretty important. I won't argue that having it go on for so long was a pacing problem, it does clearly underscore Dean's problems. Dean isolates people down to concepts, ideals or vices, with no room in between. Amy represents a dilemma, because she exists outside the black and white binary Dean created, which echoes the great Cas problem. Amy is a supernatural being who killed out of love, but was an overall good person. Cas is a supernatural being who killed out of love, but was and overall good person, however misguided the end result was. Anyway, back to the rift, we clearly see both Sam's frustrations with the lack of trust, and Dean's repressive behavior. That Sam shuts him down later on when he tries to talk about his feelings (because he's angry and hurt), for the first time since Hello Cruel World, justifies to Dean the idea that his emotions aren't important, that being emotional is "unmanly" etc. This sets up Dean's emotional development throughout season seven, and consequently, their development s8, breaking away from the codependent behavior that they've shared. That codependency, while efficient to world saving has been incredibly detrimental to their emotional health and maturity. This is forcing them to grow up, and even a little apart, because they've already been existing for a year in very different environments without each other's help. "On where we'll find Sam and Dean mentally next season: Maybe a little shocked to realize that in this profound period of separation, they've figured out how to survive without each other. That's part of it, a little bit growing up and realizing that they can't be the only things to each other or they have too closed a world or too closed an emotional complex. [They'll meet] new people, have new relationships, and are looking outward from this partnership that is both highly functional in terms of saving the world but also highly dysfunctional in terms of how you might relate to the world." - Ben Edlund.

    So yeah, that rift was pretty important to a variety of themes in s7 and s8.

    This season's theme is PTSD, and the quest bit hasn't been fully shown (still early in this season) but that doesn't mean it's not there, it's been fairly obvious.

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  69. ValeJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:37 AM

    Agreed. They choose to finally give resolution to 8 years of drama between the brothers over something rather trivial that is not believable. I don't buy it myself, but I tune off the WHY they are fighting and TUNE in to their actual words when they hit a personal note and it clearly becomes about something more than whatever is happening now and extends back to old issues from past seasons. Then I think, "Finally. Get it all out boys." Though I hate melodramatic lines about Benny trying to make it seem as though Dean values him more than Sam. Pfft. I mean, really.

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  70. Annemarie PrescottJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:38 AM

    I honestly won't think that will happen. Dean, Sam and Cas are all emotionally damaged people. Daen and Sam are adult children of alcoholic parents, which is a pretty serious issue already, but with the additional problem that their stories are unbelievable, it's not like they can go to a psychiatrist and be free enough to resolve their problems.
    They will continue to angst because Cas, Dean, Sam etc. all have so many issues, and will continue to even if the world stopped fucking up and let them have a vacation.

    ReplyDelete
  71. rehabberJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:39 AM

    I am just not happy with the way Sam has been written this season, do you really think he did not try and find Dean? The Sam seen so far has been off in la-la land for me, just not in the game and it is going to be my way or I'm gone. I am almost to the point of wanting Dean to buy him a bus ticket. Why does Dean always have to back down? I am hoping so much that there is a real Sam story, why he is being this way..can not be just because of a girl. If Sam gave up on Dean that fast, then 7 years are worth nothing.

    ReplyDelete
  72. +.castiel.+January 16, 2013 at 2:42 AM

    Samandriel got a haircut.. when did that happen?

    Sam and Dean's issues are more serious this time. what the hell. i hope they stop fighting soon. i miss their brotherhood. can it be just like it was during season 1-3 or some likeness of it? where Sam and Dean are just happy together and being brothers. even i miss their prank wars. :(

    and Cas, my poor Cas. what will Naomi do to you...

    ReplyDelete
  73. rehabberJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:44 AM

    I don't mind the brother conflict, just the story that Sam DID NOT LOOK FOR DEAN, is killing 7 years of story. They always look for each other and I am waiting for the story of why Sam did not and if it is just because of a "girl" then I am going to be disappointed.

    ReplyDelete
  74. rehabberJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:46 AM

    I think Cas in season 4 is the main reason it is my favorite season, loved the Angel/Demon arc and miss Cas when he is not in the ep.

    ReplyDelete
  75. Peter JorJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:49 AM

    My problem with all this is mostly that I don't care about them resolving stuff. I just wish they'd move on. I think it's suffocating and I think Jensen and Jared are better suited for other material. I hope it's over soon.

    ReplyDelete
  76. +.castiel.+January 16, 2013 at 2:50 AM

    its very hard for me to say this but, i think one of the reason Sam didn't look for Dean is that, he's just tired. he wants out. its sooooo bad for me to say it but yeah.


    /sorry/

    ReplyDelete
  77. Peter JorJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:50 AM

    I could not get past the cheap gimmick of Amy's son seeing Dean kill her. That's stacking the deck against Dean.

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  78. +.castiel.+January 16, 2013 at 2:51 AM

    how can they move on if they don't talk about things? all those pent up angst and anger. of course they have to talk about it.

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  79. KatAdams03January 16, 2013 at 2:53 AM

    I don't think we have seen Sam's view that much. The flashbacks don't really show anything, but they say this happened or that happened. We were told that Sam was a wreck after Dean disappeared and he just ran, but we didn't see that. We saw Sam's overreacting to hitting a dog and a vet bullying him into taking a do, maybe that's supposed to be a connection to Dean's disappearance, but it really doesn't work. We were told that Sam fell apart and Amelia saved him, but so far, we have only seen Amelia's trauma and Sam helping her. We haven't seen anything that explains why Amelia is so important to Sam, why Sam didn't look for Dean or help Kevin, why Sam is so angry about Benny, or why Sam is now completely burned out with hunting. Sam and Amelia didn't have a happy relationship; they were messes. Sam wasn't happy, he was pretending and living a dream. He has only told Dean that he didn't look for him and he had his reasons, but none of them have been explained. That's not seeing Sam's view. We have had incredibly boring flashbacks that reveal nothing about what is going on with Sam, only he had a relationship with Amelia. It's extremely crappy and sucky writing for Sam. I don't remember Carver ever saying that Sam's view was right and mature. (Carver has been very quiet about the show and he has dogged a ton of questions about Sam. He said that this season was about perception and one character might seem right in the beginning, but then we would see differently in the end. He said that no character would be a kicked dog too much and that all the characters would get their licks in. But to my knowledge, he has never outright said that either brother was mature or right. He said their relationship was going to become more mature, but that version didn't air on my television screen.)


    Personally, I think Carver has handled the character of Sam very poorly and written him out of character and given us very little reasons behind it. I don't think Sam's view has been shown well at all.

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  80. chris684January 16, 2013 at 2:53 AM

    The official version is that Sam didn't know where to look, and that he figured Dean was probably dead. He drove around aimlessly for a few months until he ran into Amelia, another survivor, and the two of them helped each other move on.

    Do I buy or like this writing for Sam? No. But if they leave it like this, they've done worse. It's not the same as saying Sam chose to not look for Dean because he got distracted by a pretty girl.

    Dean hasn't exactly listened to Sam either, so there's issues on both sides.

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  81. chris684January 16, 2013 at 2:56 AM

    Didn't Crowley give Kevin a haircut too?

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  82. Peter JorJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:56 AM

    Talking about it just means another angst session. I'd rather they say, "It's over," and move on. I would rather see them working together as well as living lives of their own. This seems like codependent misery.

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  83. lsbloomJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:57 AM

    I thought Carver would learn from Gamble's mistakes not remake them with a grand eff-you flourish. How hard could it be!?! But then OOC Sam was a warning light like hadn't we just been through this Gamble started with the same thing. The brother fighting was worrisome to me, but the way he "replaced" Bobby truly frightened me. I didn't think my optimism was that misplaced.

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  84. lsbloomJanuary 16, 2013 at 3:04 AM

    "He said...but that version didn't air on my television screen"


    Hahaa. That is the perfect statement for showrunner interviews!

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  85. +.castiel.+January 16, 2013 at 3:04 AM

    its all a part of life, angsting, having fights. when you have tons of pent up frustrations accumulating from all those years, its only natural for them to angst/fight about them. those boys have major issues (apocalypse, demon blood, betrayal, dean's abandonment issues) if they don't talk about it they wouldn't be able to move on. their relationship will never be the same of course, but at least their baggage aren't as heavy.

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  86. +.castiel.+January 16, 2013 at 3:05 AM

    ohhhh... maybe that's it.


    but Crowley didn't torture Kevin..he was VIP. hehe..

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  87. Peter JorJanuary 16, 2013 at 3:05 AM

    I've seen a lot of interpretation of his comments that says Sam is supposed to be in the right and that Dean's initial reaction will prove to be wrong. I feel like that's how the season is going - that they've only given Dean some other relationships to knock him down later on, to make him appreciate what he took for granted with Sam when Benny and Cas are gone. Sam's relationship is apparently more serious (since they have the triangle that's getting focus, and Amelia has been in most episodes). I think the idea was that at first Sam might seem wrong but then we know why he reacted the way he did and that Dean is in the wrong.

    I don't think it's been well expressed, mostly because I think this was some type of grand statement on the nature of grief that did not fit the characters or show, but I think we're supposed to side with Sam.

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  88. Peter JorJanuary 16, 2013 at 3:21 AM

    I get that, definitely, but there are many things that are a part of life which we don't see on this show. I'd rather see something else. I'm not someone who needs the brothers to be happy happy, but when the show is so underpopulated and everyone is being tortured or is depressed, I think Sam and Dean getting along would be a good contrast. I think the actors work better together in happier stuff. The angst doesn't work for me.

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  89. chris684January 16, 2013 at 3:21 AM

    Well, my last post got deleted. I'm not sure why calling Sam "sucky" is OK but calling pointing out that Dean can also be "sucky" gets deleted, so I'll says it again. I want brother Dean back too.

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  90. Kerinda HartsonJanuary 16, 2013 at 3:21 AM

    you are so right.

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  91. Cheryl WiehrJanuary 16, 2013 at 3:29 AM

    Oh my lord I can't beleive with reading the comments first waiting for the video to load that so many made a big freaking deal out of Sam saying one sentence. One freaking out of context line.
    Dean does have a lot to answer for after the last episode. First hes not himself his judgement is really off and what he did to Sam rigging that text message was cruel and hurtful and that he pre planned it makes it even worse. I'm not thrilled with the brotherly divide but Carver did have to clean up the mess Gamble left,
    Well kripke and gamble have both done a lot of damage to the show and the brothers relationship since Season 4 and he had to take alot of that into consideration in order to properly get the boys back together again. Its most likely why he keeps bringing up Ruby and the demon blood as he wants to hopefully bring things Kripke intentionally left out and hes doing a nice job fixing things here and there. Its also nice that Carver sees there are two brothers and that they both have feelings and a viewpoint and a voice. Its been a long time since Sam had a voice its good to hear it again.

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  92. DahneJanuary 16, 2013 at 3:30 AM

    In order to have even a subtle quest, they have to start. Nothing has started for the Winchesters at all. They just pout and whine and emoangst and scream about how their way is the only way that is right. I have seen more maturity in a preschool room. I haven't seen a quest at all.

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  93. KatAdams03January 16, 2013 at 3:31 AM

    At first that's what I thought, like Sam would be vindicated or we would find out that there is more to Sam's story than it looks and the situation with Sam not looking for Dean is more complicated than we thought, but then as we got further in the season, Sam is just being written so poorly at times it's very difficult to believe that the writers are going to suddenly start writing Sam like he's a hero and a good brother. I mean, they had an episode that deliberately threw all of the mistakes Sam has made in Sam's face and then instead of using that as a stepping point for Dean, they had it forget it, but Sam still gets to fuss at Dean. The writers haven't done any favors for either brother, but there have been points were they have made Sam pretty unlikeable this season. So, I don't know how the writers are going to take a poorly done story twist it around to make it seem like Sam is the right one. And it's too late to pull that card. They can't spend half the season dumping and saying that a vampire has been a better brother than Sam ever has been. They have put Benny up too high and Sam too low to make it believable that Sam is in fact the good guy here. Sam's story has been poorly written and without his point of view shown in a timely manner, the writers have made a difficult messy path to fixing. And in someways, it will look more like a retraction if they suddenly change their tune about Sam without doing some serious damage control and magic twist for Sam's story that fits what has happened.


    I agree that this story has not been done well or expressed well. Sam's grief didn't fit the character or the show and it has forced some serious drama on the show. If the conflict made sense and fit the characters, then I wouldn't be so upset with what's happening. Sam and Dean have always had their differences and disagreements, but I just can't buy that after everything, Sam wouldn't look for Dean.

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  94. percysownerJanuary 16, 2013 at 3:37 AM

    Yes, he did. Crowley is apparently very fashion conscious. He wants his victims to look their best.

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  95. MarissaAOJanuary 16, 2013 at 3:45 AM

    I'm looking forward to the boys reconstituting their relationship on what's hopefully a more equal basis, where Sam isn't treated like the little brother anymore. I'm also hoping that he finds a way to continue his relationship with Amelia, so that he has something to fight for again (which he hasn't had since season 5 when he was fighting for his redemption).


    Still absolutely terrified about what's going to happen to Cas.

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  96. chris684January 16, 2013 at 3:45 AM

    I guess we know that he never got his hand on Sam during that year .... Unless Crowley is responsible for Sam's nice looking hair this season.

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  97. C PJanuary 16, 2013 at 3:45 AM

    Nobody can have long hair around Crowley apparently. Sam better keep away if he wants to keep his hair. lol

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  98. C PJanuary 16, 2013 at 3:49 AM

    Being Human has better writing for Josh and Aidan than Dean and Sam have right now.

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  99. C PJanuary 16, 2013 at 3:52 AM

    I agree with that.

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  100. DahneJanuary 16, 2013 at 3:56 AM

    I actually like Sera Gamble and I really enjoyed season 7. I disagree with almost everything else you have said though. I don't think Dean has been a black and white thinker since season 2, except when it has suited a writer's particular plot point. Then all bets are off for both brothers to be frank. Amy killed for her son and she would have killed for him again. Dean couldn't take that chance. That's the bottom line for me and I think for Dean too. Cas killed to keep his secret and power if you are referencing killing Balthazar and Rachel and from soul addiction with the angels in heaven. He didn't kill out of love. He killed out of fear for the first two and madness for the latter.


    I don't buy that season 7 was a huge undercurrent of breaking the brothers up either and I would be willing to bet that Sera Gamble would not have gone in this direction had she stayed as show runner. First off the Amy subplot was just that - a 4-5 episode distraction that was magically resolved and then forgotten in the context of the story until now. It had no long-term consequences other than to annoy the fandom as a whole and start yet another round of brother wars.


    I do agree that Jeremy Carver seems to be intent on breaking apart the brother bond perhaps in an attempt to end the co-dependency. I however don't think that is a smart move because no matter how you view their relationship, it was and still is the foundation of the show. Taking a hammer to it and demolishing it is neither mature nor good TV. There are ways to show a relationship changing without needing to make the characters unrecognizable or creating canon and passing it off as the show's history just because you are new and want to change the basics of the show. Jeremy Carver has made one misstep after another. By the way, in one extremely unpopular opinion, I also believe that Ben Edlund is one of the main problems on the show and he has been for the last 3 years for me.


    As for the quest, we are 9 episodes in. One of the biggest problems people had with Sera Gamble is that she built up the mytharc and then it disappeared for several episodes at a time. People felt she had poor pacing for the season-long myth. Now Jeremy Carver has made mention of the season-long mytharc and then ignored it for most of 8 episodes. He's running out of time to make us even remember that it exists much less care. His pacing is non-existent. He has a chance to fix it with this next episode, but then we are back to goofy standalones. I see absolutely no difference between the way he has run the mytharc from Gamble thus far except that Gamble did a phenomenal job of setting it up in the first 2 episodes of season 7.

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  101. C PJanuary 16, 2013 at 3:57 AM

    But their argument popped back up in the Amazon episode. And the writing made Sam seem like he likened Emma to killing Amelia - it made me feel like Sam was saying because he killed Emma he and Dean were even now since Dean killed Amelia.

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  102. DahneJanuary 16, 2013 at 4:01 AM

    I agree that trying to "replace" Bobby was a major thing for me too. The nonsensical brother rift was bad enough. Thinking that Garth could come close to Bobby showed me he hadn't really watched the show since he left.

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  103. C PJanuary 16, 2013 at 4:02 AM

    How does what happened on Being Human last night effect Supernatural?

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  104. DahneJanuary 16, 2013 at 4:03 AM

    I only think it was brought up because of the circumstances. In some ways it was a similar situation. I took it as Sam saying, "You killed Amy when I couldn't. I killed Emma when you couldn't. That's what brothers do. You take the burden off each other." I didn't see it as balancing actions.

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  105. DahneJanuary 16, 2013 at 4:06 AM

    I actually think Carver can reverse things too. It would take some retconning but at this point that is preferable to where we stand now. I have by no means given up on there being a light at the end of this season. I'm just hoping it isn't Jeremy throwing both the show's history and the fandom into hell fire.

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  106. DahneJanuary 16, 2013 at 4:10 AM

    I never have nor will I ever speak for the big mythical fandom. It's too splintered for anyone to do that. What I meant is that I am seeing far more critical and unhappy posts about Supernatural in various places than I did even a month ago.

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  107. Peter JorJanuary 16, 2013 at 4:11 AM

    I think some of this is being done to get a reaction, it's just cheap baiting. Dean saying Benny is a better brother is likely designed to make viewers hurt for Sam and resent Dean, or set Dean up for a fall later on. There's a lot of that "tit for tat" writing which is the mark of laziness - for instance, what Sam did with Martin (which I thought was horrible and also wildly OOC for Sam) was supposed to be shrugged off because Dean sent Sam a fake text.


    Since Sam/Amelia seems to be something we are supposed to take seriously and Amelia seems to be someone Carver likes, I end up assuming that Sam's view in this is the valid view, and Dean is in the wrong. It's just been so poorly put across. I think if they had the brothers hug it out and never mention it again, it would be for the best.

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  108. Peter JorJanuary 16, 2013 at 4:11 AM

    If Dean hadn't sent the text Sam might have died.

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  109. Peter JorJanuary 16, 2013 at 4:14 AM

    I thought she did a pretty terrible job with episode 2 of season 7, as Cas was shrugged off like a dead bug and only Jensen and the director salvaged that by making up a scene. But the show hasn't gotten any better with myth arcs or pacing. I don't think the show has known how to pace anything since season 4.

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  110. Peter JorJanuary 16, 2013 at 4:15 AM

    Season 4 was the last good season. Good pacing, real story for Dean, fascinating moments with Dean and Cas that built up over the episodes, and a first rate cliffhanger.

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  111. DahneJanuary 16, 2013 at 4:16 AM

    At this point I agree. I don't care how they move past this contrived rift as long as they do it quickly and we can get on with the quest.

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  112. DahneJanuary 16, 2013 at 4:18 AM

    Perhaps Crowley is responsible for Sam's shaved sideburns. Score one for the King of Hell if that's the case.

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  113. DahneJanuary 16, 2013 at 4:22 AM

    I didn't mind the Cas scene because I knew Cas was not dead. Of course I thought he was going to be the Big Bad too and I think Gamble missed a golden opportunity by not making it so. I was no fan of season 4 but I would agree that pacing issues seem more prevalent in seasons 5-8.

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  114. LisaJanuary 16, 2013 at 4:38 AM

    That does make sense. We've had quite a bit (in very, very tiny bits mind you) of Cas up til now. He'd only be able to do so many episodes as a "recurring" character. Any more and then he would have to be bumped up to regular - and would cost the studio more money...

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  115. KatAdams03January 16, 2013 at 4:49 AM

    I agree there is a lot of "tit for tat" writing on the show and it's part of the reason as to why this drama seems so forced and hollow. It's just not true to the characters, but the time jump is suppose to excuse why Sam and Dean have become so different in character and how they treat each other. I don't understand where Sam/Amelia are suppose to be going. Maybe if there was chemistry, I could take it somewhat seriously, but without it, it's a boring void. However, given how many different aspects of this season has been handled so poorly, I'm finding it difficult to believe that anyone is going to be shown to be anything more than a mess, let alone right. For me, it's the same question of why not just spend the first few episodes in Purgatory with Dean and Sam searching for Dean and Kevin having them fight to get back to each other. Then if they were really dying for drama between the brothers, have Sam have to keep it a secret from Dean that he managed to help get Dean out of Purgatory. That way, it makes sense as to why Sam is so upset about Benny and unwilling to give him a chance and the audience can understand Dean's heartbreak over believing Sam didn't look for him. They should have shown what happened first, because that's what the audience wants to know. It's the issue with time jumps and flashbacks. Everyone wants to know what happened, but flashbacks can really throw off the pacing.

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  116. lsbloomJanuary 16, 2013 at 4:52 AM

    I disagree with this continued idea that Sam is so incompetent he couldn't take on a vampire.

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  117. LisaJanuary 16, 2013 at 5:00 AM

    That actually makes sense. Misha is only recurring, which means he can only do so many episodes before he becomes a regular - and it would have been specified in his contract before shooting began. Hopefully the powers that be will realize how popular he is and Carver will devise a reasonable story arc for him in the future. For now, there isn't anything we can do about the episodes already written and shot. With the improved ratings this year, hopefully the show will get enough money to be able to afford a third regular again!

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  118. E NovakJanuary 16, 2013 at 5:38 AM

    Heaven's most adorable angel is right in front of you, Dean. Sheesh! :D

    Can't wait for the episode! Can't wait to see Team Free Will back in action!

    My heart might explode with joy if they ever made Misha a series regular again. I can't ever get enough of Castiel or the Dean/Cas scenes. I will miss our pretty angel so desperately in the episodes that he isn't a part of!

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  119. Bethany MinervinoJanuary 16, 2013 at 5:57 AM

    We should probably wait to see what the context of that quote is for. They may be having a completely reasonable discussion -- we won't know until we watch the show.

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  120. Peter JorJanuary 16, 2013 at 5:57 AM

    I thought Jim Beaver (Bobby) was in quite a few episodes every season and was always a recurring character.


    I almost feel as if they know he's popular and otherwise would not use him at all. I don't understand their reticence. It's not just his being popular, he adds so much to the show and to the other characters.

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  121. Peter JorJanuary 16, 2013 at 6:09 AM

    It's one of the odder showrunning stints I can remember. The recurring characters barely interact, everything is joyless and static, the myth arc has little momentum, the MOTW episodes have no energy. I think in the last 2-3 years the show has stopped remembering how to have fun or entertain. Of course the cartoon episode, which I enjoyed overall, was one of the lowest rated this season, so maybe they have the right idea.

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  122. Bethany MinervinoJanuary 16, 2013 at 6:12 AM

    I am so excited to see what happens to Castiel and Samandriel! I'm always glad to have Team Free Will back on my screen. I hope the brothers manage to reach a true understanding. I'm also pretty excited to see Kevin again, and to see how the plot accelerates from here out! Really enjoying this season, so far. :)

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  123. Bethany MinervinoJanuary 16, 2013 at 6:14 AM

    I'm pretty sure he sent the text so Sam wouldn't kill Benny. And that doesn't make it not cruel. Both the boys have mistakes to account for.

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  124. Bethany MinervinoJanuary 16, 2013 at 6:17 AM

    Dean actually called and told Benny not to underestimate Sam, that Sam would kill him, given the chance. With that as context, I believe that Dean sent the text to save Benny's life. Not because Sam was incompetent or in danger. But I don't believe Sam should've just gone after Benny, and left his brother cuffed to the radiator either. :(

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  125. Peter JorJanuary 16, 2013 at 6:17 AM

    It's all a little weird, and lethargic. Kevin's story is actually horribly depressing (he watched his girlfriend, who was being used by Crowley, get murdered; he was tortured and lost a finger; his mother sacrificed her soul and is now on the run with him), but is treated in a strangely lighthearted manner. I think they might have felt that Sam not looking for him was not a big deal, for that reason. I think they also may have felt that people had seen Sam grieve for Dean in early season 4, so they didn't need to show that again.

    There's a lot of telling instead of showing with Sam's story. Dean's story, Purgatory, even though it is apparently not important to the show (already over, not likely to be mentioned again), was much more exciting and showed instead of told.

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  126. Bethany MinervinoJanuary 16, 2013 at 6:19 AM

    This is true. Expecting them to suddenly be okay and not talk about their pasts and baggage is unrealistic, and unhealthy. But it'd be nice to see them reach a real, mature understanding and respect. :)

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  127. Peter JorJanuary 16, 2013 at 6:20 AM

    Sam would have been in the middle of a melee with Benny and an extremely unstable Martin. I also doubt he'd hunted anything like Benny in quite a while, since he'd been retired for a year. If Sam didn't die, he would likely have suffered some serious injuries, and this while still having to deal with Martin.

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  128. Peter JorJanuary 16, 2013 at 6:22 AM

    I think the angels have probably been the best part of the season, even with their limited airtime. Cas is heartbreaking and his connection with Dean has been a huge part of this season's strengths, giving Jensen some of the best work I've seen him do on this show. Naomi, even if she's just another random crazy angel, is scary and creepy in a way I don't think Crowley can be. Samandriel is sweet and nice, even if he's just there to be tortured. He'd probably be better as Sam's love interest than Amelia is.

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  129. lsbloomJanuary 16, 2013 at 6:24 AM

    I have to disagree with your underestimation of Sam and the fact that somehow Martin was no longer on Sam's side.

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  130. lsbloomJanuary 16, 2013 at 6:28 AM

    I wasn't trying to get in the middle of the who did what wrong debate about the episode--it was ridiculous all around. :) But I don't think we can or should make the argument that Dean's motivation was to protect his brother.

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  131. SupernaturallyMeJanuary 16, 2013 at 6:34 AM

    Benny isn't just another vampire, and I think Dean knows that. The guy has been fighting for his life in Purgatory for what, like, 50 years? Dean's seen what Benny is capable of.

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  132. isleofskyeJanuary 16, 2013 at 6:40 AM

    Looks like another mediocre boring episode Season Eight style!
    X

    Brothers still at loggerheads and after nine episodes they have resolved nothing!

    Then such clichèd lines:-" Who snatched Heaven's most adorable angel," Dean says looking Castiel straight in the eye making us think for a moment the phrase is directed to him,, then of course Casteil pretends he naively doesn't understand the reference and goes "Crowley" Puleeese!!!
    X
    This season is terrible and it's so frightening to me that there is no hope on the horizon of it getting better.
    My only hope is that they offer Carver, Edlund and Singer a better job and they bring back all the old writers who knew what Supernatural was all about!

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  133. tvmonkeyJanuary 16, 2013 at 8:08 AM

    you could then argue that Dean shouldnt have gone to face Benny alone without Sam either

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  134. tvmonkeyJanuary 16, 2013 at 8:10 AM

    Sam looks amazing this season dont know if Crowley had anything to do with it (ha!) but I think that year off really did him some good.

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  135. fazziemodoJanuary 16, 2013 at 8:24 AM

    I am fed up with the text message. It didn't happen in a complete vacuum. Dean isn't evil for it and Sam isn't a poor woobie for it.

    But I have a question and Dean hadn't of sent it and if Sam had gotten the upper hand with Benny (something I really doubt) how exactly would that have played out.

    Right now the boy are pissed at each other but if Sam had killed Benny after everything that had been said and in the manner in was done with Dean being locked up well I don't think there would have been any relationship for the boys to salvage.

    It wouldn't be like the Amy situation seeing how Benny hadn't killed and it wouldn't be Dean picking Benny over Sam. It would be the straw that broke the camels back as Dean would never be able to trust Sam again even if Sam was apologetic for killing Benny what is his reasoning - Dean being too close? Dean not being willing to listen to him? Dean not trusting him when he hadn't proved Benny was guilty? This time there would not be some grand reason for his 'good' intentions it would be because from the looks of it most of the reason he went after Benny was that he was pissed at Dean.

    The text message may have been preplanned but both boys are at fault here as I wonder if Martin hadn't of called would Dean ever have found out that Sam sent someone to spy on Benny?

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  136. tvmonkeyJanuary 16, 2013 at 8:33 AM

    well considering Martin wasnt killed in the woods where Sam left him but after when he tracked Benny down to the town himself it does actually exhonerate Sam from the balme of his death. He ould have dropped Martin in a town somewhere on the way and Martin still would have gone back to hunt Benny because thats what hunters do, they hunt and kill monsters. Sam's real mistake was getting Martin involved when he should have just gone to keep an eye on Benny himself and dealt with him as soon as the murders suggested Benny was the one responsible.

    Dean no doubt will use the 'I was trying to keep you safe' card and get a free pass for what was a cruel thing to do. Can you imagine how he and the fans would have felt had Sam done that to Dean in season 6 wih Lisa and Ben?

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  137. tvmonkeyJanuary 16, 2013 at 8:37 AM

    I havent seen a Sam that didnt care Dean was gone, we ddnt see Dean grieve for Sam in season 6 before Sam returned other than a sad face here and there, msotly he was just getting on with his life.

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  138. Peter JorJanuary 16, 2013 at 8:39 AM

    Sam had been retired for a year and had just gotten back into hunting, and was facing off against a vampire who had slaughtered the worst of monsters for 50 years, and who was now desperate to protect his family. Sam's a tough hunter, yes. They've made that clear. He may even be the best hunter around. But that's an ugly situation. He might have lived, but with horrendous injuries. I think Dean was trying to spare his brother, as well as spare Benny.


    Martin's side was whatever suited his fried mental state. He had a breakdown throughout the episode and had just been released from a mental institution. What's to say he wouldn't have still decided to kidnap Elizabeth? What if he killed Benny and then decided to kill Elizabeth too? He was a danger, and he would have been a danger to Sam as much as Benny.

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  139. Peter JorJanuary 16, 2013 at 8:40 AM

    I think that bringing a mentally unstable man into a violent, dangerous situation was much more than a mistake.

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  140. Peter JorJanuary 16, 2013 at 8:42 AM

    Sam left a deranged man alone. It's a miracle that Elizabeth was not killed.

    If Dean had enlisted a deranged man to help him go after one of Sam's friends then I would have completely supported Sam using Lisa and Ben to try to stop some chaos.

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  141. tvmonkeyJanuary 16, 2013 at 8:42 AM

    you make some good points ones that can be backed up by the ratings and no not all those viewers are the 'shippers' as we have seen that Cas being in an episode or not has little or no bearing on the ratings hat so ever.

    People forget the online fandom are not the majority they only account for a small number of actual viewers that count. Seems Neilson viewers are pretty ok with what Carver is doing on some level.

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  142. Peter JorJanuary 16, 2013 at 8:44 AM

    Since we see Cas standing near Dean I think we'd know that Dean didn't mean him.


    The people who knew what Supernatural was about seemed to leave after season 4. Since then it's been a slog, although I think this season would be much improved with less angst and more energy (and more Cas...)

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  143. Peter JorJanuary 16, 2013 at 8:47 AM

    That's not much fun to watch on a show. After 8 seasons this show shouldn't be about people who are close to opening a vein. There doesn't have to be such agony. It's not real life.

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  144. Peter JorJanuary 16, 2013 at 8:50 AM

    Given that the CW runs Cas-heavy promos when he's in episodes (and even had him in a promo for an episode this season that he wasn't in), they must think he gets some interest. I'd agree he doesn't bring ratings up himself, but then, that doesn't stop some from blaming him when ratings go down.


    I think there's been some good stuff this season which is overlooked, by myself and others, due to the not so good stuff being more prominent. I've enjoyed several episodes and then suddenly dullard Amelia pops up for a 10 minute long flashback. I just hope they pick up the pace a little and let the characters get along better.

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  145. tvmonkeyJanuary 16, 2013 at 8:52 AM

    agree I want brother Dean back too and not Cas and Benny's brother Dean but Sam's brother Dean. That Dean has ben gone for some time now and this new Dean is not very likable to me at least. No more sucky Dean, hopefully Carver has a point with this storyline, episode 9 deffinateley made me question Dean's actions and his reactions which according to Carver I was supposed to do.

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  146. tvmonkeyJanuary 16, 2013 at 8:56 AM

    while the first part is slightly OCC same has been as much present in the hunts as Dean has and not off in La La land as you put it, notice how the flashbacks usually happen when Sam isnt around or nothing important is actually going on for Sam in that moment? Also telling Dean to stop being a bitch to him or he'll leave isnt 'my way or the highway' its called having a backbone. Would you stick around and take someones constant shit when you dont have to? Why should Sam have to put up with it? He's on the hunt, he's said he'll finish the job and then he wants out that honest and fair. If Dean doesnt like it then thats on Dean not Sam.

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  147. fazziemodoJanuary 16, 2013 at 9:00 AM

    The problem is we did get those couple of scenes in season 6 where we got Dean saying he looked and saying that he saying he brought hell for Lisa and Ben with Lisa saying that even all said and done it was still the best year of her life. That gave me a feeling that Dean did grieve


    With Sam we have I drove and I imploded but Sam and the dog and when he met Amelia, we have no real time frame for how long that happened after Dean disappearing. Two weeks, a month, 6 months? How long was Sam 'imploding' on the road before Amelia 'saved' him. I want Carver to flesh this out so I can feel some sympathy for Sam.

    ReplyDelete
  148. fazziemodoJanuary 16, 2013 at 9:06 AM

    The telling Dean to stop being a bitch or he'll leave isn't coming across as having a backbone its coming across as being a petulant child and not really dealing with the situation of why Dean is being a bitch to him.


    I'm not saying Dean shouldn't stop being a bitch but Sam's shut up or I'll leave isn't really going to make him sort out his problems with Sam

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  149. isleofskyeJanuary 16, 2013 at 9:14 AM

    Yes, but as the showrunners will never come out and clearly say that there could ever be a relationship between Castiel and Dean they use these little innuendos, combined with Dean's woobie-eyed glances to tease people that it might be possible .
    X
    Perhaps Sam and Dean's relationship was broken in Season Four but there was never any doubt that the brothers still loved each other. It was circumstances that pulled them apart, and there were many episodes where their brotherly bond was renewed and vital. This season it seems as if they hate each other and that the past seven seasons have never existed.
    X
    I have liked all seasons up to season seven. All the episodes weren't perfect but there was at least a logical thread running through them

    Here we have had a completely contrived drama between the brothers based on an inexistant promise that they supposedly made about not looking for each other!

    Everything that has happened this season is false. That's why I can't condivide any of it.

    Then the writing and logic of the episodes and story-arc are very poor.
    X
    A little example. We're told that Elizabeth was Benny's grandchild but when did he conceive a child?

    Wasn't it his great love for Andrea that provoked his lust for revenge? So when did he have this child because vampires I believe can't have children.
    X
    As for Castiel, I don't agree with your opinion as I think he is holding back aspects of the story, because by trying to find him a reason to exist, they have to keep this boring Angel arc going, when perhaps they could have given the show a whole new direction.
    X

    You have to admit that Castiel hasn't had anything important to do up until now. He's just being used as comic relief.

    ReplyDelete
  150. tvmonkeyJanuary 16, 2013 at 9:31 AM

    maybe Misha fans can try to keep in mind that an episode description that doesnt mention him doesnt mean he isnt in the episode and that Misha and his wife only just had a baby and the filming of any episodes from November beyond would be taking time away from that baby and time that Misha would absolutely rather be spending with his family.
    Its nothing to do with Carver, its about giving a father time with his new born child.

    ReplyDelete
  151. tvmonkeyJanuary 16, 2013 at 9:39 AM

    either Niomi snatches him away or Cas takes off either so he isnt there spying on Sam and Dean for the angels or on an angel mission of his own?
    I do think that Sam and Dean will see that there is something going on with Cas more so than has been previously suspected this season, they may come to the conclusion that they need to be caustious of him.

    ReplyDelete
  152. tvmonkeyJanuary 16, 2013 at 9:39 AM

    makes sense he and his wife just had a baby

    ReplyDelete
  153. Peter JorJanuary 16, 2013 at 9:46 AM

    I can understand giving Misha time off, but at one point he said he asked for some off (during the Purgatory stuff) and he still had to work, so I think this is more about just not wanting to have Cas around very much. It feels like they're almost scared to have him around too much, maybe because he's so polarizing with some fans. As a result I usually end up worrying about his fate instead of enjoying the story.

    ReplyDelete
  154. Peter JorJanuary 16, 2013 at 9:50 AM

    I don't think he's been comic relief at all this season. The closest was episode 8, which was Cas hiding his depression through manic behavior. I think he's had plenty of story to tell this season, when we get to see it -fantastic stuff with Dean, and with the angels. For me it's been the biggest success of the season.


    I agree the conflict with Sam and Dean feels false. I think that the brotherly problems go much deeper though- starting in season 5 it just never has had the same spirit between them. There have also been pacing problems, no overarching theme, etc.


    I honestly don't think the Dean/Cas scene was to tease fans. If you look at Cas in that scene, he's dead at the eyes, he's barely registering. The show hasn't done that much of the baiting this season. Cas is too damaged.

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  155. VeronicaJanuary 16, 2013 at 10:30 AM

    Other than the text message Dean has nothing to apologize for. It's time Sam grows up and shoulders the blame, because not everything depends on Dean. I will be veeery disappointed if they pull the Dean needs to apologize card again. His brother left him to die and it's time he realizes that. Carver made it so and even if it's OOC, there's no turning back now.

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  156. welteaJanuary 16, 2013 at 10:41 AM

    Why is wishing for Sam to finally own up to his part in their problems Sam-hating? He ALWAYS puts the blame solely on Dean's shoulders and Dean ALWAYS accepts that. And the fans are always happy about that. But someone dares suggest that Sam didn't behave perfectly either and it's suddenly Sam-hating? Newsflash Sam isn't flawless either and Dean's purpose isn't to just take whatever Sam dishes at him.

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  157. welteaJanuary 16, 2013 at 10:47 AM

    why? Sam wanted him dead from the beginning. When Dean went to confront Benny Sam had already gone behind his back and proven he didn't care enough about Dean or didn't trust in him enough to respect his wishes or his experince with Benny. If he had brought him along Sam would have killed Benny right there and then.

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  158. tvmonkeyJanuary 16, 2013 at 10:48 AM

    Sam thought Dean was dead, didnt leave him to die

    ReplyDelete
  159. welteaJanuary 16, 2013 at 11:02 AM

    I don't know where you got the "because of a girl" thing from because it has been pretty much made clear that the last few years have taken it's toll on Sam and that he was just unbelievable tired and then with his brother gone,nowhere he could look for him,no idea where Kevin was either and Sam at an all time low he basically just gave up because he just couldn't go on anymore. Where Amelia comes in is that she was in a pretty similar situation,they understood each other and they could help each other. It's logical that Sam cares about her more than if she had "just" been his girlfriend because she's also pretty much the person who got him to 'live' again.
    Although I agree with you about being tired of Dean always having to back down. Of course,of all the sh*t Sam pulled, not looking for Dean is actually the first time there's a good reason for his behavior so I hope Dean isn't to much of an a*hole about it and maybe instead focuses on Sam's inexcuseable behavior when it comes to the Benny situation

    ReplyDelete
  160. welteaJanuary 16, 2013 at 11:07 AM

    I had no problem with it seeing as someone HAD TO replace Bobby in the hunter world and Garth is a character we know and a lot of people loved. He isn't replacing Bobby in the show or in the boy's life.

    ReplyDelete
  161. welteaJanuary 16, 2013 at 11:18 AM

    Ugh I'm so sick and tired of Dean being wrong. Even if he's right (which is most of the time) it somehow gets twisted around to look like he's wrong and then we have one more thing Dean beats himself up for.


    The Martin thing wasn't just OOC (and was I really the only one reminded of Sam-on-demon blood with his behavior there? His total disregard of Dean and the utter convidence that he knows best...that's not Sam,that's Sam high on demon blood or soulless) it was just stupid. Martin was a liability, not only is sending a mentally ill guy against a predator just wrong, he also could have snapped at any given moment and could have seen vampires where there were none and started killing people. It was clear in his first two seconds on screen that he's still very much crazy,and yet I'm supposed to believe Sam somehow missed that?

    ReplyDelete
  162. Peter JorJanuary 16, 2013 at 11:26 AM

    I hope they won't have Sam and Dean doubt Cas, and instead realize that someone is using him. The former would destroy the trust Dean and Cas have built up this season.

    ReplyDelete
  163. Peter JorJanuary 16, 2013 at 11:30 AM

    That speech he gave to Dean was a Bobby speech, and frankly, annoying even with Bobby. i wanted Dean to tell him to stow it.

    ReplyDelete
  164. Peter JorJanuary 16, 2013 at 11:32 AM

    The phone trick was to save lives, not for kicks.

    ReplyDelete
  165. welteaJanuary 16, 2013 at 11:49 AM

    I doubt Dean's going to get a free pass (Sam has never let go of anything he could find a way to blame Dean for.). And personally I consider what Sam did much,much worse and far more cruel. Dean did the only thing he could possible do after Sam didn't care about his wishes or feelings or insticts or experiences or pleas and left him cuffed in a hotelroom to kill someone Dean cares about AFTER he already went behind his back. If Dean wanted to keep his brother and his friend safe he had no other choice. Sam? He was worried for maybe an hour, that's it. That can't be compared to the way Sam broke Dean's trust or to the way he just plain didn't care about Dean in that episode.

    ReplyDelete
  166. welteaJanuary 16, 2013 at 11:52 AM

    Re Benny: Before he became a vampire?

    ReplyDelete
  167. tvmonkeyJanuary 16, 2013 at 12:18 PM

    JC on episode 10-The boys will finale get to a point where they have to decide what is most important to them and in the grand scheme of things, he has no doubt that they will come to the same conclusion and chose each other.
    Can I just say that off course he wouldnt have any doubt what they would do considering he knows what they're going to do before they even do, hello JC you are the show runner which means you decide what they do? Sorry but when he said that I thought he came across as completely dense.

    ReplyDelete
  168. lsbloomJanuary 16, 2013 at 12:19 PM

    I think you will find I did not comment on the right or wrong of the text message.

    ReplyDelete
  169. tvmonkeyJanuary 16, 2013 at 12:20 PM

    doesnt mean it wasnt cruel

    ReplyDelete
  170. rehabberJanuary 16, 2013 at 12:29 PM

    I wish there was another way to vote for SpoilerTV, I do NOT tweet, but this is my favorite fan site.

    ReplyDelete
  171. lsbloomJanuary 16, 2013 at 12:31 PM

    Martin was never a danger to Sam. There is no evidence of that. Sam is 1) A hero of this show who has faced more bad anyone save Dean still living and 2) Has faced off against angels and leviathan and originals and everything else. If one regular vamp without a plan or help can take him down, then the show really has gone off the rails.

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  172. rehabberJanuary 16, 2013 at 12:34 PM

    You logic does not hold water, Dean WAS dead in Mystery Spot, but Sam was still trying to find a way to bring him back and Sam has always looked for him. I don't care that he did not get him out, but to NOT EVEN LOOK, is just not Sam. To drop Dean like a hot rock for a "girl"???

    ReplyDelete
  173. Mischievous MouseJanuary 16, 2013 at 12:45 PM

    I really think this stems from he fact that Crowley is Hitler's number one fan. People that went to internment camps had their hair shorn.

    ReplyDelete
  174. rehabberJanuary 16, 2013 at 12:51 PM

    Sam has never been in the family business like Dean and has wanted out since the pilot, yeah he stuck around but his heart was not in it. I do think he is tired, but I still say it is not Sam to just drop Dean and not try.

    ReplyDelete
  175. tvmonkeyJanuary 16, 2013 at 12:55 PM

    In Mystery Spot every day that Dean died the day kept resetting itself and Sam remembered so he knew something fishy was going on.
    Its only when he realises the trickster is involved that he attempts to save Dean by making the trickster stop resetting the day. He then ends up with a dead Dean on a Wednesday instead and knows that the Trickster tricked him and that by hunting the Trickster down he could possibly get Dean back.
    Completely different circumstances.

    ReplyDelete
  176. fazziemodoJanuary 16, 2013 at 12:56 PM

    No but you were commenting on a comment about the text to say Sam would have won against Benny because he was competent to take out a vampire, his competence wasn't the major thing - Dean trying to make sure that the two people he cared about didn't get hurt.

    My comment was on the mess as a whole.

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  177. Mischievous MouseJanuary 16, 2013 at 12:57 PM

    I agree 100% I do understand why Sam doesn't trust Dean's judgement about Benny. After all Dean refused to believe that Cas was up to something until it was rubbed in his face. Dean is loyal to a fault and Sam knows this. Although the text was a low blow to Sam I think it wasn't just to protect the two from each other but it was a way to force Sam to make the choice and go back to Amelia. Remember that Dean is the king of abandonment issues nd after Cas just stayed behind in the last episode Dean's wounds are fresh. Dean has learned through out the years that everyone leaves him in the end. So he is ripping off the bandaid quickly and saying go back to the life you chose.

    ReplyDelete
  178. Mischievous MouseJanuary 16, 2013 at 12:58 PM

    I don't think Dean really knew who would win the fight and he really, really didn't want to find out.

    ReplyDelete
  179. rehabberJanuary 16, 2013 at 1:03 PM

    Amelia has been hateful to Sam from the get go and having Sam be that desperate for a relationship does not fit the Sam I have loved. It has always been Sam telling Dean if I don't get my way I am leaving and Dean going OH OK, I'm sorry. Sam not looking for Dean for Amelia??? UGH

    ReplyDelete
  180. fazziemodoJanuary 16, 2013 at 1:04 PM

    I agree Sam should be cautious about Benny, but he shouldn't have gone to the lengths he has done because it is now coming out as pettiness and high mindedness rather than being a measured sensible response.


    As for the text, I don't know about the making Sam make a choice - I think in the situation that Dean was in it was just a quick way to get Sam to leave. If it had been deployed in another circumstance then maybe but really we won't know know. Though I find it interesting that Dean with his issues put a B plan in place that he knew that Sam would run.

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  181. LisaJanuary 16, 2013 at 1:37 PM

    I love the angel storyline but I know a lot of people who stopped watching because of it. This fandom is very polarized, so just because we like it doesn't mean it's universal. I haven't got a contract in front of me, and these things can be negotiated somewhat - you can apply to SAG-AFTRA for an exception - but in general anything over 13 episode appearances makes you a regular and jumps your pay scale. 8--9 episodes is usual for recurring. Count Beaver's episodes. I bet he was in fewer than you think - but I believe they did something special for him because they always wanted him as a regular but he didn't want it because of his family.

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  182. DahneJanuary 16, 2013 at 1:44 PM

    Bravo! I totally agree with this comment. Dean had first hand knowledge of Benny's prowess in Purgatory. He had dated knowledge of Sam's hunting skills, but he knew they were there. The text kept him from having to get between them and allowed him to concentrate on the case and stopping the vampire from killing people. I don't think Dean sent Sam the text solely because he wanted to make sure Sam was safe, but I don't think people can completely discount it as part of the reason either.

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  183. Miss SupernaturalJanuary 16, 2013 at 1:45 PM

    I still say that Sam didn't have any reason to believe Dean was dead. He didn't think so when his brother disappeared before. Sam didn't know Dean was in Purgatory either, he just didn't even try to find out. This wasn't mature, it was out of character, but it's clear that the show wants fans to believe that and I'm actually sad it's working for some.


    Whatever, when it comes down to it, they'll just make everything Dean's fault. It looks like it's happening already. Grow up, Dean. Loved ones don't look for disappeared people. At all. Only, they do.

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  184. K MacJanuary 16, 2013 at 1:52 PM

    Right! When Dean disappeared right before Sam's eyes in poof of red
    light when Cronos took him, Sam had no more or no less reason to believe
    Dean was dead, yet he didn't brush his hands off and walk off into the
    sunset then,and that was only a few months prior to the events here.

    ReplyDelete
  185. chris684January 16, 2013 at 2:01 PM

    If Dean can't stop making passive-aggressive jabs at Sam because he has unresolved feelings, then I think it's up to Dean to bring it up directly. It's up to Sam to walk away when he's had enough.

    I just rewatched this promo and I'm not really sure why there's such a big ruckus about it. Sam's message to Dean sounded similar to what Dean and Benny have been saying to each other - "You're in or your out." Sam is asking Dean if he can get onboard and quit the crap so that they can move forward. Sam has never asked Dean to apologize for anything, so I doubt that's what's going on here. He has, however, pushed Dean to quit the passive-aggressive crap and make a choice.

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  186. Akiko00January 16, 2013 at 2:07 PM

    I'm really looking forward to this episode, but I'm sad it will be the last one for Castiel for quite a while. Five episodes without him would have been bad enough, but possible six (or even more?) is beyond terrible. I need to pick up a new show to watch during that time. I don't like this.

    ReplyDelete
  187. ScottAJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:14 PM

    Good point. I'm a fan of the myth arc so I don't usually get worked up about brothers fighting. All the brothers I know did. But I'm starting to notice it creep to the front of the room, so to speak, myself.



    At this point I find it hard for the boys to trust each other to whack Crowley or any other high-level monster.

    ReplyDelete
  188. ScottAJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:15 PM

    Please don't get me going on that freaking hair cut again! AND THE TOWELS!!!! RUNNING FOR HIS LIFE AND HE STOPS AT BED, BATH AND BEYOND????

    ReplyDelete
  189. Miss SupernaturalJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:16 PM

    I believe that, in the moment Sam went against Martin's view, he would turn on him quickly. We saw what he did to Dean when Dean was pleading to Sam that Benny was innocent. Martin wouldn't believe Sam either IF he changed this mind.

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  190. Miss SupernaturalJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:22 PM

    Yep. Because what Sam did up until then to Dean and at the end and leave him unconscious and handcuffed wasn't cruel at all.

    ReplyDelete
  191. isleofskyeJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:23 PM

    Then why give us the whole melodramatic love story for Andrea?
    IMO the writers just threw in that Elizabeth was his grandaughter without giving it any thought. It's shoddy writing as the whole season is.

    ReplyDelete
  192. Miss SupernaturalJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:26 PM

    Yep. This time he didn't even try to find out IF he was dead at all or not. Completely different indeed.

    ReplyDelete
  193. Miss SupernaturalJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:27 PM

    Oh boy, YES! Thank you!

    ReplyDelete
  194. chris684January 16, 2013 at 2:31 PM

    We don't know what Sam knew or didn't know or did or didn't do following Dean's disappearance because we haven't been shown. It's guesswork and a few vague comments..

    ReplyDelete
  195. isleofskyeJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:32 PM

    There is no way that Sam thought that Dean was dead. He isn't stupid. He can figure things out. He would have tried to find out what happened to Dean regardless.
    X
    The "not trying to look for Dean" was just a cheap easy way for Carver to initiate a brother hate-drama without having to strain his "creativity" too much!
    X
    Sam seemed quite all right in the last season seven episode and there's no way he would have run off in a hysterical fit without even trying to look for Dean, not after having survived worse situations.

    X

    Then how do you explain the fact that he was perfectly fine afterwards, when he brought the dog to Amelia and when he was doing odd jobs around the motel.

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  196. chris684January 16, 2013 at 2:35 PM

    Sam and Dean are rough and tough hunters who think nothing of being physically knocked out, hitting each other, or leaving Gordon tied up to soil himself for days. They are weak when it comes to the emotional hits, and that's where Dean hit Sam this time.

    ReplyDelete
  197. Miss SupernaturalJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:36 PM

    I think you're still hopeful that something will happen that will show Sam's reasons. I'm going with what the shown onscreen and, going by that, I maintain my opinion that Sam had nothing to make him believe Dean was dead.

    ReplyDelete
  198. Miss SupernaturalJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:37 PM

    ... To save the 2 people he cares about.

    ReplyDelete
  199. ScottAJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:38 PM

    Jeremy's going to need TWO two-hour episodes to send this off the ramp again. At this point, bring the Cambion back. Let Jesse pop the cage and turn the hunt for the word of god into a scavenger hunt.

    ReplyDelete
  200. Judy SmithJanuary 16, 2013 at 2:48 PM

    If I want real life I will shut off the TV. I watch this show for all the crazy stuff, including the boys very emotionally charged relationship.

    ReplyDelete

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