CASTIEL MUST SAVE A FELLOW ANGEL — Naomi (guest star Amanda Tapping) tells Castiel (Misha Collins) that Crowley (guest star Mark Sheppard) is holding an angel captive and Castiel must rescue him before Crowley finds out their secrets. Castiel turns to Dean (Jensen Ackles) for help. Meanwhile, Sam (Jared Padalecki) meets with Amelia (guest star Liane Balaban) who asks him to make a choice: stay with her or leave and never contact her again. Robert Singer directed the episode written by Jenny Klein (#110).
Source: CW
Supernatural - Episode 8.10 - Torn and Frayed - Press Release
Dec 26, 2012
Supernatural
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...And the final last tiny hope I had that Sam's life with Amelia during his year off just finally died.
ReplyDeleteThanks or nothing, Jeremy Carver.
Um mm, he already spilled all of your secrets, sorry Naomi, you're a day late and a dollar short.
ReplyDeleteIt is officially "ToRN and Frayed" though: http://www.ksitetv.com/supernatural/supernatural-8-10-torn-and-frayed-official-description/18397
ReplyDeleteThere's probably more than just the names of the prophets at stake.
ReplyDeleteHard to believe this WON'T get everyone against Amelia. Really hate it when people ask to do such a choice in any show. Also, I really hope they're gonna save this angel. I liked him!
ReplyDeleteI agree. The worst part is that he came there because he thought that she was in danger. I never liked the character, but this made me dislike her ever more.
ReplyDeleteThat said, I'm still here in my corner crying because this pretty much confirmed that everything they said about Sam was actually truth. I still had hope, silly me.
It isnt has if she has been liked and accepted by the fandom. She isnt the one that has been hurt by this sl and season.I dont know which fate is worst for Sam staying with Dean or never seeing Amelia again.
ReplyDeleteIs it THAT bad to stay with his brother and save people?
ReplyDeleteIs that bad to stay with a brother that holds onto resentments . Or one that tells you what a failure you have been. I dont know I am not Sam and we all know that that is what will happen that Sam will stay with Dean and hunt . Maybe I am being harsh but then no more than how Sam gets treated . I want the brothers relationship but until I see one that is done for both it is hard to support it.
ReplyDeleteThank you, I was actually just gonna ask about the title name, some places have it ToRN and Frayed and some list it as Tom and Frayed, which to me that one doesn't make any sense so I was wondering just which one it was.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion Dean's resentments are there just because Carver wanted to create conflict between the brothers. I don't buy it in the same way I don't buy that Sam wouldn't even try to look for Dean. For me this is all fake drama created by Carver, bending the characters to fit his "stolyline" hurting everything, especially the core of the show.
ReplyDeleteI understand that but it doesnt change the fact it is canon on the show . And it was the way Jeremy decided to go.
ReplyDeletedoes Sam even have a choice in the matter? the show needs him to be on the road with Dean so its obvious he has to chose Dean and say goodbye to Amelia. This story is set up so that Sam cant have what he wants and we all knew it so it was completely pointless. Why the hell did Jeremy Carver not have the smarts to make Sam's love interest a hunter? Now Sam is back to square one, alone, with no one but Dean to talk to. Thanks a lot Carver. Oh and the spoiler about one of the brothers remembering why they hunt in the first place that ties in to the Henry Winchester storyline, that's not about Sam changing his mind about hunting over normal again at all is it? Completely and utterly pointless and predictable.
ReplyDeleteis it so bad to want something else?
ReplyDeleteYes, it was his decision. It doesn't mean I have to accept it this easy, especially when it's against what I've know from the characters for 7 years. I don't buy it and won't ever accept it this character assassination that excuses as "grow".
ReplyDeleteThe brothers will have to work things out. Dean did what Sam demanded, though. He shut up and put his feelings at bay so Sam would stay with him. (He's better than I am because I still didn't forgive Carver by making Sam not look). He'll have to review his opinion on Benny because there is no way in hell that he's a "better brother than Sam". But I hope we will get there.
Maybe with this ultimatum Sam will really look and see why he should be with Dean instead of Amelia, because form what I'm seeing from him since Dean's return, I'm wondering the same thing.
it turned out to be a completely pointless storyline it would seem
ReplyDeleteWhen the show is based on two brothers hunting, yes. But then again, if he leaves, so will I.
ReplyDeleteBeen saying that since the title came out.
ReplyDeleteI'm speculating that the ultimatum is actually going to function as set-up for Amelia to find out about the existence of the supernatural and the kind of life Sam leads. So that that's the main point of their storyline in the episode, as opposed to Sam having to make a choice. That's my hope anyways. I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I've wanted one of the boys to have a long-term canon love-interest since I started watching the show, so I don't want Amelia to go anywhere.
ReplyDeleteThe stuff about Cas is pretty much what you could deduce from the promo. Except that it doesn't explain why Naiomi straps him to a chair and starts sticking things in his eye. Still absolutely dreading what happens to Cas.
Yeah... I understand that Sam has to come in terms and find find his motivation again to hunt.I just don't understand why do this all over again. All this did was destroy his seven years characterization and growth. I'm very disappointed at Carver and will never forgive him for his pointless brothers wars.
ReplyDeleteThis sounds like a good episode. Dean and Castiel saving the day, and possibly some kind of purposeful conclusion to the Sam and Amelia storyline.
ReplyDeleteWasn't this one meant to be the mid season finale? If so I'm betting on Sam sticking around Amelia. Though am confused as her and Don seemed pretty cosy.
ReplyDeleteNopes. The mid season finale was always meant to be the 8.09.
ReplyDeleteJensen said that Dean will not believe is leaving until Sam does it. Dean had every right to be upset with Sam. Every right. Dean even looked for ways to get Sam out of the cage. Rewatch season 6. It's there. I understand Sam girls not liking Dean being open and honest for a change, but it's what Sam has asked for for 7 seasons. I would be angry. As a Dean girl, though, I am waiting to see what the writer who loves family in this show and who said we would be back to how it used be, does this. Carver is great and I'm excited to see where it goes.
ReplyDeleteI am tired of everyone blaming everything this season on Dean, though. Seriously? Sam is just as much at fault.
If it was always intended to be the cliffy with Sam and Amelia - pretty poor.
ReplyDeleteStill confused about Don and Amelia though, they seemed cosy on that couch. If she is giving Sam ultimatums why? She has Don back and Sam has Dean back, even with Don backing off and Dean going off on his own neither one can pretend the two aren't out there alive.
Carver can't expect us to watch as Sam and her try and fail to go back to their insular little pity party they shared with Riot?
I dont think it is about forgetting that either her husband and Sam's brother are alive it is about knowing where you stand. Because they cant pretend their feelings arent there and dont count wether it is seen has a pity party or not. Because Sam's feelings do count for something granted not very much but they are there.
ReplyDeleteI'm with you completely.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, was Riot there with Don and Amelia? I don't remember.
I think this ultimatum has more to do with Sam making a soul searching and deciding which side he wants to be with. Like I said in another place, I understand the reason, but this storyline of his was already said and done. I hate it that they did this to Sam again, especially with the damages it caused.
Maybe that is meant to be Sam's growth moment - seeing that she is flip flopping around, kind of like he is. He wants out of hunting but doesn't fully trust Dean's judgement on Benny which could effect Dean's hunting.
ReplyDeleteI hope not. I don't want Sam with Dean out of distrust. I hope Sam will find another reasons to stay with Dean (like love for each other, like old times). It seems hard to believe now, but if the brothers talk... Oh well. Here am I trying to hope for a fix again. You're probably right.
ReplyDeleteSam's feeling do count, but an ultimatum is a big thing especially in light of the circumstances.
ReplyDeleteAs you said Amelia can have feelings for both men, but she can't expect both men to fall in line seeing how they have feelings for her. It is the start of something unhealthy if they do.
Also it is passive aggressive way to deal with the situation which was built on both her and Sam suffering mutal loss, something now both of them can't cling too. Sam has to pick if he stays or goes. Not the two of them working out if their feelings can be put into a different context and if he stays how much exactly can Sam open up to her about his past? Not much I'm thinking which means the ultimatum is going to be Amelia or Dean being in Sam's life if he is going to keep his secrets because Dean isn't the one that is being made to chose.
Dean being honest? well then if that is how he feels and he does despite Sam's jumping into a cage that he still feels justified in his resentments then there is no point in the brothers being together. Being upset at Sam not looking I can understand the reveal of the fact he still holds onto resentments going back that I cant not after everything Sam has gone through .
ReplyDeleteCan't mind seeing him, maybe Don doesn't let him on the couch.
ReplyDeleteAgree Sam needs to do some soul searching but this? If Sam stays with Dean after and everything is magically fixed in this one episode after all that has previously gone down this season I will have lost the plot because really I don't get why he would apart from him
a) Not liking being formally involved in some weird time share with Amelia seeing how Don did seem like he was pretty comfy on that couch and Sam seemed to be living in her old motel room in the promo for the next one
b) him having some need to prove to Dean that he was a better brother than Benny.
But if Sam does stay with Amelia, how exactly is he meant to have any contact with Dean seeing how seeing Dean would mean lying to her and going on the road?
I don't think Sam and Dean relationship will be fixed in the next episode, but I do think the mending will start. I remember a Set interview with Jensen where he said that Dean had a line more or less telling Sam that he should be happy, so I think the brothers will at last start talking.
ReplyDeleteI don't think Sam needs to prove Dean that he's a better brother than Benny. It was his love for him that made him able to beat the Devil after all ;). Deep down Dean knows that, he was just hurt. I hope Sam knows that, too. They're hurting each other, but even with everything that's happening this season (Carver's fault with character bending to fit his "drama"), they're the still the better brothers for me. They're still the reference for me when I watch other shows. Carver might try to destroy it, but he can't erase 7 years of brotherly bond and their dedication to each other.
Besides, I think the opposite will happen. I don't trust Benny and I think he's going to disappoint Dean sooner or later.
If Sam chose Amelia, Dean could stop and visit, but I don't think it's going to happen unless Amelia is able to wait until Sam close the gates of Hell and/or Supernatural is over. I don't know about others, but I won't watch the show without Sam and Dean hunting together.
I'm sorry for rambling. Forgive me. Some of the things I wrote here was just a reminding to myself why I can't give up on them. I just hope - hard - for a fix.
I don't think the boys relationship will be fixed next episode either - if it is it won't make sense and I can see Dean telling Sam that he should be happy but then getting in a car and driving off, so it doesn't necessarily meant that they will be talking in any real sense. Just that at least Dean realises that they are hurting each other at the moment and can't be together.
ReplyDeleteAs for Sam trying to prove that he's a better brother than Benny, I'd agree wholeheartedly with you if we hadn't had Sam's irrational flying off the handle when Dean says that he trusts Benny because Benny hasn't let him down yet. Sam can't deny that he hasn't let Dean down at points in his life but Dean is still there and wanting Sam by his side and plays into the 7 years of a brotherly bond. It wasn't just Sam's love for Dean that helped him it was Dean's love for Sam too. But with the whole thing with Sam acting that way about Benny just hurts Sam in my opinion more than it makes Dean look like he has a screw loose trusting a vamp.
As for Benny, for me he is one of the highlights of this year. I like that both him and Dean are foreshadowing that he probably will go off the rails. With Benny telling Dean not to trust him in the beginning, Dean with his Benny hasn't let him down YET but carrying a machete to put him down if he had and Benny confessing that he needs something to keep him on the straight and narrow but he is trying. He has me hoping he will not turn but also knowing he probably will.
As for Amelia, the way that blurb is frayed she isn't giving Sam a time limit to go and come back when he has done his job, it sounds like a pick now sort of thing. Plus didn't she go one about how Don joined the army without thinking about her? How is she going to feel about Sam going and closing the gates of hell then? She isn't Lisa who I'd think may have been prepared for that if her and Dean had worked things out. Plus not sure how exactly Dean can come by and visit if she doesn't know what the boys used to do - it isn't fanfiction. Dean turns up with claw marks and scars and the vet doesn't notice? What is Sam meant to tell her about what they used to do? Sam gets a call in the middle of the night and doesn't go because Amelia gave him the ultimatum?
It isn't the basis of a healthy relationship and remember reading a comment that basically said the way they have set Amelia up she is coming off as a romantic tumour squeezing the life out of things unless they actually do something with her.
What.Did.I.Just.Read.
ReplyDeleteNO.NO.NO.I like the Castiel part but...SAM??AMELIA???This has gone reaally far from the reservation.I liked them at first and supported Sam.Even blaimed Dean at points.But the writing of Sam's character is so sloppy.I didn't want to believe but now I admit it,It's not right.I expect better from the Sam I know.PLEASE writers.FIX THIS
btw is it Alfie the angel we're talking about??
ReplyDeleteAbout Dean and Sam talking: Like I said, I think this episode is the beginning of it and we'll see it through some episodes. A CW publicist said that a strong episode about this will come. She said it's episode "Trial and Error", so I'm hopeful about that. Gotta keep some hope going otherwise I'm going to give up, lol.
ReplyDeleteGood point about Dean and Benny. I don't think Dean trusts him as much as he says. If he did, he wouldn't ask "What did you do?" each time Benny calls him, plus what you said. I also hope that he won't lose it, but I think he will.
As for Sam and Amelia, I totally agree with every word.
Finally going to save Samandriel? Yes!
ReplyDeleteThe promo still freaks me out. I do not trust Naomi at all.
Maybe it is the beginning of the boys talking or maybe it is simply the start of Sam losing the rose tinted glasses about normality and they won't talk properly until 'Trial and Error'. Because if Dean says Sam has a right to be Happy at some point does that mean that Sam is going to turn round and say that Dean has a right to be acknowledged as simply his brother? Because when it comes to that over the years he has been an all or nothing sort of guy when it comes to normal and his family/hunting he doesn't seem to be able to do a balance..
ReplyDeleteDean at least was kind of open with Cassie and Lisa when he was in a relationship with them with regard to what he did in his past. Sam seems to compartmentalise with every women apart from Ruby - Jess, Amelia and that girl in the bar in season 5. They all seemed to think he just had a tragic family past he doesn't elaborate on and with Amelia I don't think that she could take the hunting info, Hence my thing about if Sam isn't hunting that Dean maybe cut out of his life.if he isn't hunting, because Dean as is will have to contort himself to fit in when he visits if Sam does go with the ultimatum that doesn't make sense seeing how Don seems to be still in the picture!!!
As for Dean and Benny, I don't think Benny trusts Dean as much as he says either, seeing how he was prepared too. The way things are going I think that all the purgatory/PTSD stuff is going to happen through Benny, what with his talk about missing NOT being hungry in purgatory. I think if anything he is going to deliberately go off the rails not to be evil or in a dangerous way but enough to make Dean send him back to a place where the rules are simple, people don't attack his family because of him and he doesn't have to deal with the hunger. Plus given eternity he might find Andrea again and try and patch things up with her. I'm not sure how much luck he'd have but he has eternity and in a way is much more romantic than Sam and Amelia ever was.
Well, yay for some movement on the plot.
ReplyDeleteAs for the Sam/Amelia stuff, my guess is we'll see Sam with Amelia for the first 5-10 minutes, and then he'll be with Dean through the rest mulling over his options with flashbacks guiding us through. This is the writers' chance to go deeper. If the only argument for Sam choosing Amelia is this relationship that they haven't built up enough for us to care about yet, then it will fall flat for me. If we actually get a deeper look into Sam's brain and we see other factors weighing on his decision, then assuming it's not another character assasination, the episode might work for me.
I wouldn't mind either or both having special friends who are ok with their lives as hunters and able to take care of themselves. I just can't seem to like Amelia and I hate the idea of Sam being in a romantic love triangle like this. I'd take any of Sam's past flirtations or loves over this.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad you're optimistic; I wish I could be.When has the show ever given us insight into what Sam is thinking? I'm looking for a genuinely believable explanation of why Sam didn't look, but I'm not holding my breath. I think JC decided on that ridiculous story line and he is gonna see it to its conclusion regardless of the OOC behavior of both Sam and Dean (but especially Sam). The story synopsis holds no appeal to me and I find myself not even caring about the long holiday break without new episodes. Sad
ReplyDeleteDid I sound optimistic? lol
ReplyDeleteI think their relationship will fix on episode 13 like that Suzanne Gomez said it will have the most emotionally and honest convos between them that will be loved by the brothers' fans
ReplyDeleteThen as I said somewhere else if Trial and Error is 8.13 the boys could well be apart for 8.11 and Sam won't come back until he talks to Grandpa Winchester.
ReplyDeleteThere were set reports that saw Jared and Jensen together. Also, they said during a convention that both of them would dress up for this episode (11), so if they end up apart, it won't be for long, IMO.
ReplyDeleteI believe the originally episode 13 (Trial and Error) got pushed to be the 14, look:
http://repimg.tumblr.com/post/38968717004/episode-titles-8x01-8x17-read-more
We have a full and updated list of all known titles and airdates here http://spoilertv.co.uk/dashboard/show/154/Supernatural#episodes
ReplyDeleteThank you for the link. I wasn't sure if you already had it updated and honestly sometimes is a little hard for me to find the right link. I'm sorry.
ReplyDeleteHa no worries at all :)
ReplyDelete"Meanwhile, Sam (Jared Padalecki) meets with Amelia (guest star Liane Balaban) who asks him to make a choice: stay with her or leave and never contact her again."
ReplyDeleteWhat the hell? First of all, Sam already made a very clear choice. He left Amelia with her husband. Secondly, what's with the "never contact her again" crap? He ended up at her place because Dean sent him on a wild goose chase and Sam discreetly hauled ass out of there when he saw that everything was fine. He made a distinct effort not to make contact with her. The synopsis makes it seem like he's harassing her or something.
i dont get why everybody ~(well not everybody) but why people say "thats me done with the show , it's crap the worst ever!" ....yet the tune in every week there must be something cripping for them to tune in otherwise they just need 2 give up on the show and move on cause its not fair on the people who are enjoying the season , to me its awsome and the best since s5 , yes there are gaps and holes but there were gaps and wholes in s4 (and yes i know dean and sam have fought before ) but come one guys! do you get along with your mates and family all the time ?,,,Also by the way Amelia is to be in all the season i read and to even meet Dean so it's not a pointless story line !....Chill out guys it's just a show if your not likeing it simple as dont watch it! and people can comment on ma comment and bitch all they want at me for telling the truth ...But it's only half way through the bloody season !...ANYWAYS HAPPY BELATED XMAS AND NEW YEARS!
ReplyDeleteFor the Amelia/Sam plot i *highly* suggest reading this (ESPECIALLY the third to last paragraph...i agree with what Laura is saying) http://www.tvovermind.com/supernatural/supernatural-season-8-midseason-roundtable-review-dean-sam-castiel-purgatory-amelia-benny-tablets/2
ReplyDeleteDo you have a link to where it said Dean would meet Amelia? I've heard speculation and even bloggers asking about it but I've never heard a straight answer one way or another. As for your other point, I strongly believe that a show can have a bad season and then get better so if I am unhappy with a show I have enjoyed for several years then I give it 2 years. If I am still unhappy then I drop it. I am glad you are enjoying the show. I am not, but then again I really liked seasons 6 and 7 when it seems like you may not have.
ReplyDeleteHere we go again; another separated brothers' episode!
ReplyDeleteX
Naturally Dean gets coupled with Castiel once more, and Sam gets sent off to Amelia, cos that's what the writers do now when the angel is around.
I'm convinced that's why they invented her, to have a convenient place to kick Sam off to when Dean's cavorting with his other better brothers!
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I also believe that by now any hopes of Amelia being an illusion have been put
to rest; she seems to be as real as Sam and Dean, unfortunately!
What I don't understand is why make her so unappealing? Why is there no chemistry betweeen her and Sam?
Sam has had great chemistry with all of his previous girls, even with Doctor Cara whom he had only known for about an hour. That love scene was completely believable.
I wonder if this non-chemistry is how its supposed to be with Amelia, or if it's the two actors who are just not compatible! Not that I really care!
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As to those who wonder why a person who criticises the show just doesn't stop watching it, the answer is simply because that person loves the show and wants it to go back to its former glory.
I want to see Sam and Dean good with each other; in the Impala; on the back-roads of America, saving people from evil. I want the show to be scary again!
I also want to see the brothers together on-screen for at least half of the episode and being the lead actors and plot protagonists in their own show.
I don't care about any of the current secondary characters other than them existing to enhance the brothers' story, and if they all got killed off in the next episode I wouldn't shed a tear, certainly not like I did when Ellen and Jo and Bobby died!
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I've enjoyed all seasons of the show so far to a more or lesser extent, including the great season six and almost all of season seven, and have joyously bought all the DVD's.
However I'm not going to throw good money away on a season 8 DVD where my favourite brothers hardy appear except as window dressing and when they do, they hate on each other.
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I am hugely disappointed in this season, beginning with the writers and showrunners but a little bit of my annoyance falls on the actors too.
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The ony people I will defend to the bitter end are Sam and Dean Winchester. They are but puppets in the hands of 'the powers that be' and have to dance to their tune. but for me they will always be two brothers who have lived and died for each other.
I dont think Amelia will meet Dean she thinks he is dead so unless there is a second miracle like Don it would be hard to explain Dean's return. Unless he can be bothered to see her from a distance and at least knows what she looks like but outside of that I cant see them meeting.
ReplyDeleteAnd the winner of the most awkward character of the year goes to...Amelia!...
ReplyDeleteOh wait..did I say of the year?...I meant the most awkward character of the series, she even beats Garth on that! But Garth is supposed to be funny! Amelia is supposed to be...erm..what?
I mean wth is going on with her? She cant be serious if she says that in the show. Sam is the one who should put the dillema upon her and not her to Sam.
I say complete waste of character, should have used her time to get Benny into the main arc :P
I'll second Dahne request for a link where it's said that Dean will meet Amelia, do you have it?
ReplyDeleteIf she's real, I think they should met each other, but with this ultimatum, I don't think it'll happen.
I KNEW Amelia was at least a real person... but something is fishy about that storyline.. i mean with the flashbacks, if they were 100% real, are weird.... They moved wayyyyyyyyyy too fast.. For example (not all of the flashbacks I will mention):
ReplyDelete-Sam hits a dog...Amelia acts mean towards him.
-Sam fixes her sink...She instantly thinks the worst of him(kind of an insult, no?)
-The dog runs into her room... She flat out insults him, of sorts, on his clothing...if this were any other tv show, what if he was just poor? jeez.
-THEY HAVE SEX
-THEY MOVE IN TOGETHER AND HE MEETS HER DAD.
Like you said, they had NO chemistry, so how could that happen in just months? See what I'm saying? It doesn't make sense.
Can I just point this out: Sam has bad luck with relationships... Every girl Sam has been with (or at least the ones SHOWN on episodes, except for that hooker in 6.03) either dies or has some supernatural involvement, whether she is a monster or is part of a case...so far nothing is THAT weird with Amelia, but there are things that seem suspicious with her. For example: there's no chemistry but they moved in together, Don turns out to be alive, WHEN SAM AND AMELIA MOVE IN TOGETHER I MIGHT ADD(coincidence? *I THINK NOT*), and we know nothing about her.
Remember when Becky put a spell on Sam? She was real, Sam was "himself" (meaning under the spell, that's how he acted, and it was really him behaving how he did....you know what i mean?), and everything actually happened. What if Sam is under a spell now, just like Becky's spell? It would explain a lot. And since you don't know a lot about her, how do you know she didn't make a deal with Crowley? or is into Hoodoo? She kind of seems too demanding (kind of headstrong...like Becky)...and shady..kind of..
Lastly, I don't care what happened after she found out Don was alive. THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS: she was with him, what was it, 8 years? And Sam for less than a year...and in the end she asks SAM to live with her or not contact her again.... 1) SHE KNEW SAM LESS THAN A YEAR AND DON MORE THAN 8 PROBABLY. 2)Does this remind you of Lisa telling Dean never to contact her again? WHICH SHE ONLY SAID AFTER THE DEMONS GOT HER.
So what I'm saying for 2) is that something supernatural might happen to influence Sam's AND/OR Amelia's decision.......
**Note: I said a lot of this in a reply to isleofskye's comment**
ReplyDeleteI have a theory going in the back of my head, it seem's far fetched, but you never know, right? I mean we know pretty much nothing about Amelia, and I think that's a big reason on why we don't trust/like her. My theory is kind of like in 7x08 when Becky put a spell on Sam. Sam was real, Becky was real, and all of their actions were real....what if that's what's going on now? Like I said, we know little about her...what if she's into Hoodoo? or made a deal with Crowley? Or even the angels??
And about the ultimatum she gives Sam, first of all i can kind of see where she's coming from, he did just leave her one night... but this isn't a love story, this is Supernatural.
I just want to bring up a few points:
1- Sam has a nack for getting sexually involved with monsters, or at least women that have a supernatural event happen to them..
2- Doesn't this remind you of what Lisa said to Dean? To never contact her again? That only happened after something supernatural happened to her...(hint hint?)
3-She is kind of self centered, at least, or even....head strong, i guess would describe her. Wasn't Becky the same? I mean, this season has been throwing story parallels left and right to previous seasons: Garth and Bobby, Benny and Ruby. Why would this be any different? If this isn't a story parallel, then at least 2 has to be......
4- I don't care why/how she chose this... but the fact of the matter is she chose a guy she knew barely anything about that she knew for less than a year, over a guy she probably knew at least 8 years. I don't care if he "died and she moved on." She. Chose. Sam.....Why?
5- How much time has passed since 8x01? WHY DID THEY CONTACT EACH THIS LATE?! I mean, why didn't either of them at least check up on each other (this doesn't include Sam being "concerned not stalkerish") in the first few days Sam left?
6- WHO/WHAT THE HELL IS THAT SHADOW FROM THE FIRST EPISODE OF THE SEASON WATCHING SAM LEAVE. Is it Don? An angel? Crowley or a demon? ...or is it YET ANOTHER story parallel to the last scene in the season 5 finale where souless Sam is watching Dean? Who would be watching Sam? OR Amelia? ...Or their relationship even?
Your points are all well taken, but we're into episode ten now and nothing has been explained, nor has anything supernatural been even hinted at as far as Sam/Amelia is concerned.
ReplyDeleteYes their relationship is very strange.and if it all turns out to be a plot or a daydream I would be the first to be happy, but I don't have a great confidence in these writers and I just don't think they're capable of giving us a twist in the relationship.
I'm thinking that what we see is what we get!
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I believe the writers just wanted to enlarge the number of characters on the show, that's one of the reasons why we get Benny and Amelia,
Up till now we have had 2 Castiel episodes, 2 Benny,2 Kevin, 1Garth,1 teen werewolf love triangle,1 cartoon ep and bits and pieces of the Amelia story.
Now we're going to get another Castiel ep, then there's the Charlie one, then the Henry one, etc.
When are we going to get an episode synopsis that gives us info on the genesis of Sam and Dean in this season?
These future episodes seem to be going down the same road of putting secondary characters as the main ones and keeping the Winchesters as wallpaper.
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Then the whole season has been built on te fact that Sam didn't look for Dean.. That has enabled the writers to work in all the brother hating. They have put in Benny and Amelia as plot devices to keep the brothers arguing and for nothing else as far as I can see..
In fact the purgatory story seems to be over and if Sam leaves Amelia that will be over too, so what was the point?
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I do hope things will be different in the second half of the season but I honestly don't think so. .
They wanted to give Sam normal Jeremy Carver decided to not deal with Sam's Supernatural past I would find it odd if they then turned around and made Amelia and their relationship have a Supernatural element when they wanted to give Sam a 'human' problem . I think more has been read into somethings than there was the flashbacks for instance were different because they wanted to counter the Dean ones in style and content.
ReplyDeleteYour theory is great and you have some nice points their! You also made me put some more thought on this storyline, which I still believe it misses this ''something'' to actually like it :I
ReplyDelete>First of all you mentioned AMELIA MIGHT BE WORKING WITH CROWLEY which could be possible! Crowley in 7x23 says to Sam: "Looks like YOU ARE well and truly ON YOUR OWN. Could Amelia be this "spell" sent from Crowley to keep Sam away from hunting and from freeing Dean from Purgatory? To keep him isolated.
>I also find the whole "Amelia isn't real" theory somewhat true but I don't know. It sound way too M. Night Shyamalan thingie...Sam being depressed from losing Dean creates this imaginery friend to help him through...Still don't know :I He lost Dean in the past too and such a thing didn't happen to him.
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ReplyDelete>I kinda disagree with point 3. Becky was into Sam from the first moments even if she was self centered. But Amelia has so much selfishness in her with her whole dillema drama :(. I think Garth is mostly a requiem to Bobby rather than a story parallel, a momentum (and a funny and awkward one) to his time in the show. We still don't know (yet) anything about Benny, if he is gonna turn into another Ruby. What I hate in shows and books is repeatition, so I don't think Benny is gonna be a Ruby like character. (Think Benny's storyline will have to do with Alpha Vampire as he said we were gonna see him again.)
In the end I think we are all overthinking this, I think they are gonna pull something to please everyone (hopefully).
Wasn't Sam the one who left her though? In the middle of the night, no less? And he probably didn't leave a forwarding address so that she could contact him, if only to ask, 'what the hell?'
ReplyDeleteI like how Don asked Sam to respect 'her choice', yet in the end Sam effectively decided to deprive her of it. He took himself out of the equation, leaving Don space to wriggle back into her life. Maybe we have yet to see how that all worked out exactly, I dunno. But i can certainly understand why Amelia is now giving Sam a 'choice' so to speak. She's going to give him something that he decided to take away from her.
She saw Sam packing and I didn't see her asking him to stay after he explained why he was leaving. Then we saw her pretty cozy with Don, so yeah, I think they worked things out and are happy again. Until now.
ReplyDeleteDoes this mean you have watched the season 8 episodes now? I hope you have because I would hate for you to be this disappointed and upset with something you haven't seen yet. I have been rewatching the season and while this is still firmly in season 4 territory (i.e. my least favorite) there are some things that don't bother me as much as they did the first 4 times I watched them. I still have hopes that this season can be saved once they nix the brother rift, allow the brothers to save the day, and focus on the quest. All of which they could do in 3 episodes tops if they really tried.
ReplyDeleteStrangely enough while in former seasons I was quite content to wait in happy anticipation for the dvd to come out, this season I have now used 'alternate' methods and seen up to episode seven.
ReplyDeleteThe brother rift is just so annoying and I hate it when they hurt each other like that.
It's a rehash of what's been done better before, and Benny and Amelia, regardless of whether you like the characters or not, are simply there to provide an excuse to separate the brothers and to keep the flames burning.
In season four, it's true that the rift was big but there was a logical reason for it, not a contrived one like this.
Sam would never have not tried to look for Dean, neither is he so stupid as not to consider that Dean might have been blasted to Purgatory, as that's where Dick would have gone when he died!
As for the quest,I actually think that it's rather weak. What is the ultimate point of shutting the Gates of Hell?
Why close off Hell and the demons, and yet leave Heaven and the angels with a free hand? Good and evil are supposed to balance each other out, aren't they?
You're also correct in saying that in two or three eps they could fix things between the brothers and go on to something else but it remains to see if they will. As I said above, there is to be a string of episodes with guest stars centre stage, which probably won't leave much time for brotherly introspection.
When I read a synopsis about Sam and Dean working out their problems and being good togther again, I'll believe that the story line is maybe going to change, but I have my doubts. Only time will tell.
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When I think of how they could have sent Sam into Purgatory after Dean and we could have had a string of adventurous episodes there with the brothers encountering old enemies like Gordon Walker or the ghouls that eat Adam or Jack the rugarou, and even friendly enemies like Lenore or Madison,etc, etc.instead of this melodrama we've been given,
They would really have been like Butch Cassidy and Sundance. There are handy woods in Vancouver, so they wouldn't even have had to build sets. :)
i see what you mean. I get where they'd want normal...but something has to happen to bring him back to leaving Amelia, and I don't just think it is Sam saying "I can't stay with you...because let's be honest, she can't stay for the rest of the show, so what I'm saying is something has to happen to make her leave. Even if Sam DOES say they can't be together, I highly doubt say, Crowley, for example, wouldn't ever try to use her as Sam's weakness like he did to Lisa with Dean.
ReplyDeleteAlso you have to admit, there are a little too many coincidences. I just re-watched Citizen Fang and I noticed that when Sam went to check on Amelia, she was perfectly happy with Don, not even looking towards the window, AND DRINKING A BEER......So if she didn't see Sam, and she was already drinking....then why would she need to go to a bar? and say Sam was at that bar for maybe 10-15 minutes...that'd mean that Amelia would have had to leave her house in that same time.... Why on earth would she just go from happily drinking with Don to going to a random bar? Like I WOULD want Sam to just have something normal in his life....but there's just too many things weird with her situation.
Yeah, you do make really good points.. I'm thinking IF there is a plot twist (and i think JC at least is a strong enough writer) it might not be til the last third of the season. They released names/episode synopses or bits and pieces of them at least, for a lot of episodes...but nothing past the name of the 17th episode. Maybe if something would happen, small bits and pieces will happen here and there, and it might happen in the end of the season? I'm not saying that the whole flashback/relationship thing is fake/real... but that something small might have been altered in Sam's mind... Kind of like the Dean/Castiel thing with escaping Purgatory; it was a small twist...you know?
ReplyDeleteAnd for the part about them introducing more characters... they've introduced lots of characters before too, and they stuck around for awhile...but they eventually died. So maybe Amelia might stay this season, maybe even into the next...but you don't think she'll stay for the rest of the series, do you? And she might leave just because Sam said they couldn't be together (because quite frankly, if Sam stays with her, you lost half the show...there'd be no story line)...but it wouldn't just end, something would bring her back up..supernatural or not. And with Benny and Naomi, Benny could create a whole story line, with how you said he creates tension between the brothers. Obviously Naomi introduces the story line with Castiel. It was smart to bring Naomi into the show, it made Castiel come back and it isn't too unbelievable.
I see what you mean with saying if Sam left Amelia, it'd be a pointless half of the series...but if he does stay with her, like I said before, if nothing supernatural or something with Dean happened to Sam and/or Amelia, then we would lose Sam...he'd be out of the hunting business. So JC and the other writers need to think of something clever or else it'll be a lose-lose situation for the series, and that's why I'm hoping for a twist with the Don/Sam/Amelia plot.
Ok yeah, I see what you mean with Becky. And with Garth I didn't mean so much as a parallel as to a character is acting like a previous one, you know?
ReplyDeleteI hope Benny stays good because I like him. Maybe Sam won't mind him anymore and they could even work all together, the three of them, on a case....but remember how we thought Ruby was good...ish..and we found out she wasn't right at the end of the season? I have no idea what will happen with Benny after Citizen Fang. I hope there'll be a conflict between Benny and the Alpha, it'd be different, a new idea.
I hope they will try to please everyone...but everyone is just so torn this season I don't know if they'll be able to:(
I feel like with Benny we knew his story with Dean and how he was turned, so we trust him more than Amelia. We feel more compassionate towards him and we like him better than Amelia... We haven't had a full on episode about her yet, only small bits and pieces...and from experience in the show, when detail is missing, it's usually because it'll be a bigger issue later on (for example: In the Pilot we didn't know who the person in the nursery was until later we found out it was Azazel, and that turned into a ginormous plot).
ReplyDeleteFor the Amelia working with Crowley plot, that make's so much sense! I knew he said that, but it didn't seem like it'd be important to a story line (besides the fact that Sam WAS alone). There have been incidences with demons left and right in past seasons, but not a lot in season 7 and this one. Last season it was because Crowley said they needed to focus on the Leviathans...but why not this season? I get if someone would argue because of the "Word of God issue," but that's not what I'm talking about.. In seasons 1-5 Sam and Dean would just roll into towns filled with demons, or episodes would have demons apon demons after them...but this season? Nothing more than trying to get Kevin. Why aren't randoms getting possessed? Why aren't there crossroad deals being brought up in the show? You see what i mean?
Lastly, for the Amelia isn't real..I know for a fact Amelia is real, but I'm saying maybe something isn't...right, if that's the word, with her or her story line. See, if you would make up people and memories, etc, because your mind can't handle something...why would you make it with stress? That's why I think SHE'S real, and so is Don...but maybe something is altering Sam, maybe just even enhancing how he feels about her, kind of like something being put under a microscope; it appears bigger.
I am so glad you have seen them. Now we can really discuss the pros and cons to the direction this season has gone so far. I too feel the brother rift has been completely contrived and have yet to find the purpose behind it. Conflict for conflict's sake always leaves me cold and quite frankly, it doesn't add anything to the story Carver is trying to tell. They could have said that Sam looked but couldn't find anything. He could have been checking out Bobby's books when he met up with Dean. They still would have had the brothers with different philosophies and still had the Benny character to help Dean escape Purgatory and yet not have the redundant nastiness that has followed this whole season with both brothers. They also would have avoided writing the brothers out of character AGAIN. The writers really need to learn how to develop conflict without contrivance or killing someone off. Both have gotten beyond stale.
ReplyDeleteBefore this season started, my favorite theory put Sam and Dean in Purgatory together too. I loved that idea and considering the fact that the Purgatory scenes have been the best we've gotten this year, they really missed out on an opportunity to reset us back to season 1 - Both brothers with a common mission in a setting that would require them to trust each other and have each other's backs. Golden.
My theory about the quest is that since we know more is covered than just Leviathans and demons, it makes sense that at least one tablet covers angels. I agree that if they close hell they need to close heaven too. It sounds like a great three year plan to me and I hope Jeremy Carver is heading in that direction. I was not as big a fan of him coming into this season as many were and I don't have near the confidence in him now as many people. However he gave us this very interesting premise and if he could just laser focus on the quest and move things forward, he could get back on track very quickly. I agree that what we have heard so far doesn't sound that promising but promos are never what we think they will be. They always leave out the best stuff. I am hopeful that Torn and Frayed will reveal part of Naomi's purpose and get us started on finding those tablets to close heaven. If they have the chance to close heaven, Purgatory, and hell maybe they will do one a year. Here's to cutting off the angels first.
About Amelia, I can't remember where I read it, and I might have interpretated it wrongly, Maybe someone else can confirm it but I think it was said,perhaps by Jared, that Amelia might be there for good in Sam's life.
ReplyDeleteI sincerely hope that is not going to be the case as I wouldn't like her to be the love of Sam's life. Surely he could find someone more appealing. He's not a bad looking guy, after all! Sarah come back, I'll' even take a resurrected Jess or Madison! ;-)
No, I really hope there is an explanation because as you justly say, the flashbacks are really weird and there are lots of discrepancies timewise, but that could just be poor continuity on the part of the writers.
However, i'm sure that something will happen eventually, otherwise this will have been a very shabby season indeed.
I agree to the Angels going first because I love love love all the bad guys;
ReplyDeleteCrowley naturally but I have to say i really liked Dick too last season. I just loved that evil little smile he had. I llike the Alpha vamp too although i didn't like the use of the chilildren in that specific episode.
As far as Naomi is concerned, she has been inserted rather abruptly into the season. I hope that her story line goes somewhere interesting.
Well we're already at episode ten so if there is to be some forward movement on the quest side of things, Carver should really start giving us something.
However I'm standing on the side lines as far as he's concerned. He had better come up with something thrilling and interesting after this shabby start to the season.
I was so annoyed on Zapit where I saw that they had Dean-Benny as one of the bromances of 2012.
The only bromance valid for me is Sam and Dean, so until Carver gives me that back, he's not going to get a positive word from me.
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If we knew more about Amelia, I'm sure I would like her more, and i think many fans would agree, but a lot of people just don't trust her character, which is perfectly understandable. Maybe if they devote an episode to finding out her past, like the episode about Benny, but right now I am really disappointed with this story line, and I never thought I'd say that.
ReplyDeleteI had the weirdest dream where Sam said he'd stay with her, and they just had a perfect life, and that was that. But can't we all agree that this is not The Notebook haha, this is Supernatural.
I'll try to look for who said that Amelia will be there for good..because I can't imagine Sam with Amelia (not to mention their lack of chemistry. I don't know if it is intentional or just the two actors aren't good together) living an "apple pie life" and somehow staying a hunter. I sure hope it won't turn out like Lisa and Dean, because it really hurt Dean.
I know Jeremy Carver is great, there's this interview on Citizen Fang where he says when something is going to happen in a few episodes, they drop hints in the current episode (that didn't happen with Sara Gamble). What they were talking about is how they mentioned John so much in Hunteri Heroici...because his father will be introduced soon. That's why I'm trying to be hopeful there will be a twist because this story line will just go downhill if they don't do anything about it, and they are DEFINITELY leaving out enough info for one to happen.
One more thing, remember how everyone in interviews say that there'll be a reconciliation between the brothers? The HUGE issues this season are Amelia and Benny. If there is to be said reconciliation, something is going to happen to Benny and Amelia. I'm not saying they die, but maybe Sam/Dean just choose the other brother over the other two characters, because at this point, if they just try to sit down and talk it out, I don't think that'll work. We saw at the end of Southern Comfort (and even during that episode when Garth said they're each telling their thoughts, but the other isn't listening), Sam told Dean how he felt, and Dean said ok...but that sure didn't resolve it. There has been issues between the brothers in the past, and they kind of just "forgot about them" instead of really talking about them, and as we saw in that episode, Dean possessed brought them up, so obviously they still need to be resolved.Even still, those problems didn't come close to the ones this season. That's another reason why I'm hoping for a twist in Amelia's story line, because it might be the only way to keep the brothers from not splitting, considering if the show is renewed (which I think we all know it will be hahah), there will be more seasons, so this won't be the last, and Dean and Sam separate. The show's foundation is based on family. Sketchy Amelia is not Sam's new family, it doesn't happen that way in Supernatural; there are no happy endings for Sam and Dean with relationships. I hate to admit it, but something might happen with Benny too. There has to be an eent that rings the brothers closer together, and Sam going off with Amelia, I feel, is not in the cards for him.
I agree that I would love to have Jess or anyone else come back. We didn't know much about them but we liked them because Sam and them always had good chemistry, him and Amelia have none. I actually feel kind of awkward, because they seem awkward around each other, watching them... It's a train wreck. Maybe it's the actress, but Jared? he's a better actor than that! That's ANOTHER reason why I think something is going to happen, because she is just awkward. Like, Sam had a better relationship with Sarah in 1x19 which was what, a week? than with Amelia who he's been with for close to say, 10ish months. That's a little fishy to me, you know?
I definitely think there's an "Angel" tablet and maybe a "Winchester" tablet, too.My best guess is that "closing the gates of Hell" would just stop demons from getting out, not "bad souls" from going to Hell. Reapers (per SPN canon) are the beings who transport most "human" souls either to Heaven or Hell, and I don't think there's intended to be a "Reaper-Hell barrier" the Reapers can't go through.
ReplyDeleteSimilarily most of the angels are as douchy as and more dangerous than demons, so I think the Angel Tablet is going to describe a spell to put up an Angel-Earth barrier so Angels can't "take" human hosts anymore, permission or not but "good souls" would still be carried in by Reapers.Metatron described the "Compendium of Tablets" being for Humans for defense of earth and the Winchesters and their allies have been the earth's greatest, unsung Champions against demons, angels, Leviathan and "Eve's Children" and those they "turned".
Just a random comment but I assume S8 is supposed to be a "3 season arc" unlike season's 6 and 7 that turned out to be more stand-alone-ish and if it's rolling out as JC has sketched out on a cocktail napkin, as of 8.10 this season will barely have completed "Act One".
ReplyDeleteI *think* there will be *some* twist to Sam/Amelia/Don - like others I have ideas. I recall reading an interview regarding a future episode where JP said something like "Wow, what a twist" to Robert Singer (I think) and I believe it was regarding the Sam/Amelia storyline... I haven't seen anything yet that makes me nod and say "Wow", too.
Ok, yeah! I heard of an interview on Zap2it with JC and he says he had a story arc that would take the show to season 10 at least..So I think we're on the same page here!
ReplyDeleteI get what you mean, nothing made you lean back and think, "I didn't see that one coming." That's what I was saying in another comment, we might not get that twist until after the second break in the show between episodes 16 and 17. Maybe it'll be episode 17 since it's called Goodbye Stranger.
But I have no idea what the story arc is...probably the Word of God tablets. As I said in a different reply, an interview with JC reveled that Jeremy likes to insert clues in an episode if there's something big that will happen. At the time of the interview, they were referring to the fact that
i read it i know you guys may be thinking lies ...But the truth ...Anyways i would love for her not to be real and for sam to have had a meltdown or something but until you see that she aint "real" then to me she is xx
ReplyDeletei get everything you just said ,but it would be stupid for Dean not to meet her and we all know Sam's little or (big) secret of "what he is running from" will come out sooner or later ...It would be stupid for it not to as that's what the story has been about.
ReplyDeleteI still dont honestly get why people say though " i am done! , it sucks now. Season 1 was much better . I wont be tuning in next week" .Yet the same people who moan ...
Nah i dont have the link but i did read it ...I actually aint talking about you , i mean at the end of the day people have opinions and will not see eye to eye all the time...It's people who try and degrade it and say stuff like " i aint watching that shi..te anymore" ...I kindy liked s6 -s7 was well meh....lol
ReplyDeleteI am not lien'g when i say i HATED! s4 it was boring (to me) ...The final was EPIC!!!!! but i have to even today skip past episode's ...Anyways just hope you know i swear i aint talking about you
But how can he? she believes Dean is dead so how does his being alive going to be explained? Sam got it wrong , oopps I made a mistake ,I found him at the back of the cupboard. If that didnt exist then yes I would be all for Dean meeting Amelia then he would at least put a face to the name however storywise the fact she thinks Dean is dead is not something that can just be bypassed.
ReplyDeleteI thought Sam was running because he couldnt handle everything not because there is some big secret we yet to know.
I didn't mean to imply that I thought you were lying. It's just that I follow the spoilers closely and I don't remember this. Can you at last try to remember the context so I could try to look for it myself? Thanks.
ReplyDeleteHe could say the truth as in that Dean disappeared and he thought he was dead, but he was found alive. Similar to Don.
ReplyDeleteCould but wouldnt that be pushing things too far. Two of them losing somebody then both returning ? Don you can make a reasonable case he was in the Army in Afghanistan but Dean? not sure Amelia would buy that .
ReplyDeleteLOL, I can't say I can blame her about that... Not to mention that she could ask about the old "issue" of the seasons (for some fans) like: "He disappeared and you didn't try to find him?" Awkward...
ReplyDeleteThis whole storyline is too soap opera for anyone to buy. That's one of the reasons I wanted a twist so bad. I expected more from Jeremy/Singer/writers and reading the great theories some fans had, it seems that I'm not alone of this.
All i can member is reading it before it started ..It was spoilers dont know which site , i wish i did cause it's annoying me to lol..xx
ReplyDeleteyep what @misssupernatural:disqus said x
ReplyDelete