Here’s
a more complete transcript of the phone interview that I took part in on
November 8th, with Jimmy Smits. As you’ll see, he was warned by
Sutter about what he could and could not say in talking with the media. That
said, he was delightful to chat with and gave some detailed and insightful
answers to the questions. I’m using “IQ” for “Interviewer’s question” as there
were several people involved in the interview.
IQ: Can you talk a bit
about filming love scenes with Katie [Segal] while being directed by Kurt [Sutter]?
Jimmy: No. No, no, I didn’t have any
love scenes that Kurt actually directed.
Kurt only directed the final—Kurt is the creator of the show, and he
writes…
He only directed the last episode this
particular season and .... There was
like a kissy-kissy thing, but no. He had
to deal with it in the editing bay.
IQ: How about the scene where Wanda’s [Wanda de Jesus] character holds a gun to Nero and Gemma? Was that a bit awkward to film?
Jimmy: Awkward in the sense of what?
What do you mean?
IQ: Because she’s your partner in real life—so was that weird?
Jimmy: I mean, we’re professional actors.
That’s what we do. I mean, it
was—yes, in the beginning there was—the first time maybe that we rehearsed it
or something it was a little strange but actually was—in a way, I thought it was
really cool because the trust quotient is much higher because we all have
another layer going on.
I mean, I think we were
able to hit, as actors, emotional chords in that particular scene, some of
which is on the editing floor. But be
that as it may, we were able to hit some kind of emotional chords that—because
of those relationships there.
IQ: What first drew you to the role?
What was it about it that made you want to play Nero?
Jimmy: Well,
we didn’t know what the role was. In the
beginning it was more about a vibe that I had with Kurt after meeting with him
a couple of times. Paris Barclay, who is
an executive and does a lot of the directing of a lot of the Sons episodes, is somebody that I know
from NYPD Blue. He was one of the core directors there, and
he did pretty much all of the final episodes that the Simone character was
involved in. So we go way back, and we
did the history there.
It so happened last
year that the DGA, the Director’s Guild of America was doing a tribute for him,
and because of that they invited a number of different people from all of the
wonderful shows that he’s participated in—In
Treatment that he was involved with and Blue
and of course Sons.
So it was at that time
that we were up there on the dais speaking about Paris that—you know, people
know each other in the business, but they really don’t. You see each other at the award shows and
stuff and we talked. The only person
besides Paris that I have a comfort level with is Ron Perlman that I worked
with on a couple of movies in the past.
Ron is a really cool guy.
But Wanda and myself
and Katie and Kurt, we spent a couple of minutes talking and—I think in a way
it was out of that that the call came from Kurt that he wanted to know if I
would sit down with him and just explore the possibility of—he had an idea for
an arc.
At that time, I think
he was formulating what he was going to do for the season and what he
necessitated in terms of the spokes of the wheel of the show. So we had two or three lunch meetings. I went to his office, took me around to the
set, and just started vibing [sic] about what the show needed and a character
that he was interested in exploring.
That’s the way it all
started. That first script wasn’t really
written yet, but he had it in his head.
So basically, that’s how it happened.
We were fans of the show, and like you said, it does have a really
loyal, core base following that are very passionate about the show. It’s not just people that are into
motorcycles. It’s this whole outlaw—it’s
a very passionate following.
It’s a kind of industry
darling. A lot of people in our business
are into the show. Like I said, I check
in with a lot of different shows during the year. I watch the beginning episodes, and I’ll
check in during the middle and usually see finales and stuff, but Wanda was—she
was like a die-hard fan of the show probably because the fact that Kurt—besides
the grittiness of the show, he writes very strong women characters.
So when that call came
in and Kurt wanted to talk, she was like, “You’ve got to do this. You’ve got to do this. I mean, you’ve seen the show, but you don’t
know what happened.” So we started
watching that third season, which is when the—tell me if I’m going on too long.
IQ: No, no, no.
Jimmy: But you know, the third season where they did
the whole Irish storyline, I think the show just jumped into another gear, you
know, and it just struck me that the show is very, very cinematic in a
way. They’re able to do these wonderful
things and have a—that very iconic thing of outlaws.
It’s almost like a
Western—like watching a Western in a lot of ways. So that was the whole beginnings of our
conversations. There was a comfort level
there because of Paris and Ron, and I’m very happy that it all—it’s all worked
out the way it has.
I love those guys. They really are a very, very, very tight
family. Without going into a lot of
detail, that whole thing that happened with Opie’s character, it was—and I’m
looking—I’m from the outside just trying to do my job there. It was not only what was filmed, but it was
very emotional for that group during the read-throughs and those couple of weeks
when those decisions were made and stuff like that.
They’re a very, very
tight group that have dynamics, like every family, and I’m just very—I’m proud
to have worked on it this season and given a little contribution there. And there it is.
IQ: I know I can’t ask it because you probably
can’t tell me, but I hope you make it out to next season. But I guess we’ll find out one way or the
other.
Jimmy: Yes.
You’ll find out soon enough.
There’s a turn that happens, so we’ll see.
IQ: can you talk a little bit about your
character’s relationship with Jax, which I’ve enjoyed ….
Jimmy: Well, just in those conversations that I’ve
had with Kurt, I think that—you know, one of the things that’s great about the
show is that it has this kind of—I mean, I think Kurt’s made—if you guys have
talked to him before, besides these kind of archetypal images, there’s almost
like a classic thing going on. It’s
almost like Hamlet.
It’s like you’re
watching a production of Hamlet play
out because there’s this—you have insights into this group that you’re not
really—you don’t really know about them.
They’re not like doctors or cops and stuff. It’s a world you don’t really know that much,
and there’s a hierarchy of power and all of that, and there’s people that are
vying for power, and there’s families and stuff. It’s a lot like Hamlet in a lot of ways.
If you know Hamlet, there’s a character named
Horatio, who’s kind of like—he’s on the side kind of like helping Hamlet try to
decipher all of these feelings that he’s having. I think that there are a number of different
Horatios in the scheme of the Sons world. Opie played that in a way.
This year you had—I
think what Kurt was doing is that he has Harold’s character, the Pope
character, and this Nero character both vying in their way at Jax’s dilemma of
where he is going to take this group, and they have different ways of how to
deal with power, how to get what you need and move on.
Nero is much more
about—as Kurt talks about it—the exit strategy.
How do you—in a world that’s gritty and on, some might say, the wrong
side of the law—how do you maneuver and get on the straight and narrow for your
family? So I think that Nero character
with regards to Jax, he operates in that sphere as a mentor, as a friend, as a
bro—you know what I mean? All of those
things.
Now it’s going to take a turn, and….
It always does in Kurt’s world. It always does. He kind of blows up a lot of things on
purpose to keep the characters totally off-kilter so they can go on to the next
decision. So that’s what’s been going on
in these past—last episodes that we’ve been shooting before the end of the
season.
IQ: Can you talk a little bit about Nero’s
decision to want to stay with Gemma even though Jax told him to stay away, and
there’s also her husband in the picture now.
So what is the draw to him for wanting to be with Gemma?
Jimmy: Well, I think that he operates pretty much—I
don’t think he gets told a lot what to do by anybody. In that kind of outlaw mentality, that’s a
kind of wrong—the definite wrong approach to outright just say you can’t do
something like that. You’ll always go
for, “Why can’t I,” or, “Watch me do this,” or, “Watch me do it the way I want to
do it. I want to have my cake, and I
want to be able to eat it too.” So I
think that that’s kind of operating on some level.
I think at the end of
season four was—and just what I alluded to before—Kurt as a writer just mixes
things up and then blows … up at the end, literally and figuratively, for all
of his characters. At the end of season
four, you saw the Gemma character very much wandering without a handle to grasp
onto. So I think that on some level with
the introduction of Nero it helps to right her in a certain way.
IQ: Can you talk a little bit about the Lovebirds?
Jimmy: Yes.
Other than the fact that when I saw, “Oh my gosh, birds again.” It’s like Bobby Simone with birds, and now
we’ve got Lovebirds. It is a kind of
theme that—didn’t they have birds?
Didn’t the … have birds too? I remember seeing a birdcage in there. So I don’t know if
it’s a continuation of that, but it just popped into the script.
IQ: Have there been any moments on Sons
of Anarchy when you saw a particular performance or a scene and thought,
“This is really great television, something that could hold its own against any
show or movie out there?”
Jimmy: I think what I referenced before about what I
saw in season three, which really cemented for me that the show had jumped to a
different gear with that whole—for lack of a better word, the whole Irish
storyline that was introduced and when they went to Belfast. That whole back and forth was really quite
intricate.
A lot of it, I thought
that they were in Ireland for real. I
was believing that they were somewhere else, and a lot of it was shot
here. They did go and do some skeleton
work to do exteriors out there, but that was really quite, quite
wonderful—Titus Welliver, who’s a friend from NYPD Blue days, and now he came in and did a wonderful job with
them. The performances there were very,
very intricate by everyone involved, and jacked up the storyline to another
kind of level.
Some of this stuff that
Ryan—Ryan, I have a lot of respect for him as an actor, and the kind of scenes
that I saw, prior to jumping on board, between him and Jax character—what
Charlie does—were very, very special.
Just the grittiness of the show, the grittiness of the show just sold me
100%, and I think that it—like you say—it can go up against any film or TV show
out there.
IQ: Do
you have a message for the fans of the show?
Is there anything you would like to say to them?
Jimmy: Keep watching.
We’re so very, very happy that this season that loyal fan base that has
been around has grown exponentially. To
hear all of the wonderful things that we have around the table when we’re
reading new scripts or out there in the grittiness of the motorcycle deserts
riding around with—when the guys are riding around, that fan base has
increased, and the numbers have increased exponentially.
The show has grown even
more popular, so everybody’s really happy with that. With that comes a kind of responsibility not
only to that loyal fan base, but to the new folks that are around that are
watching it to keep on doing it. So
you’ve got to keep—everybody’s conscious of we’ve got to keep upping the ante
and keep raising the bar.
IQ: What’s the ethnic background of Nero, and are you similar to him in some
ways?
Jimmy: Am I similar to him in some ways? Well, he’s from California. He makes references to his family that he has
an uncle in what is Brdo, which is San Bernardino, so that’s kind of like the
southern, inland empire area of Los Angeles, but the show is based in northern
California. I think what we’ve—because
where you get sent in terms of the penal system, which has to do a lot with his
background—he spent a lot of time in the penal system. So he’s from California and I’m not from
California originally.
IQ: So how did you find common ground with him?
Jimmy: I found the common ground like I do with a lot
of different characters. The research
for me is probably just as fascinating as being on-set doing work every
day. Those couple of months when Kurt
and I were talking, I dug up my mi familia files because it’s kind of like
revisiting that particular character maybe 15, 17 years later.
I went to interview
people who were involved in motorcycle clubs—Latino motorcycle clubs—and spoke
to a number of what we call …—so people who have been involved in the—been in
the penal system who are now trying to be on the straight and narrow like that
particular character—and just talked about stories that they’ve encountered and
the lore that they have, and what tattoos mean when you have a—because your
body is kind of like a board of your past.
Things like that, those
things flesh out a character’s life in a lot of ways. You hear stuff and you’re able to—you have to
be like a sponge and use what you can and how it relates because TV is kind of
fluid, and things change on a week-to-week basis.
But those are the
things that I do with every character.
If I’m involved in a boxing movie, I’m going to see fights and learning
about boxing. It’s part of what we do.
IQ: I just got the sense when we first met Nero that maybe we weren’t seeing
the whole side of the story, and so far he’s proven to be a good guy, and he seems
to be good for them and everything. But
I’m wondering, you said there’s a twist coming, so is Nero maybe more than
meets the eye?
Jimmy: Well, you’ve heard something about his past,
the little things that he’s talked about, and I think if you watched those last
episodes, he’s revealed a little bit more about what his past is and where he’s
come from. You know that he has been
involved in the penal system prior to that.
So there’s that
potential that’s there. So it’s a
springboard for that. Again, I’m going
to go back to what I think is Kurt’s strong suit in terms of writing is that he
lays the groundwork and then just mixes it up, blows it up—however you want to
put it—so that nothing is what it really seems.
It’s definitely going
to take a turn. You can’t have this guy
that’s this ex-gangbanger not see a little bit of that come out. So it’s going to—yes. It’s going to turn.
IQ: I’ve been on the edge of my seat in all of those scenes. Even though they’re so good, I’m just like,
“Oh my gosh. Something bad is going to
happen. It can’t be Sons of Anarchy if
something bad doesn’t happen.”
Jimmy: That’s what we always feel when we get that
first draft of the script. Before you open
it up, it’s like, “We know something bad is going to happen, and who’s going to
take the bullet? What’s in his mind this
week?” But that’s good. That’s what
keeps it fresh in a lot of ways.
IQ: you’ve had a lot of scenes, and you’ve had a lot of scenes with Katie,
but are there any other actors on the show that you wish you had more screen
time with or any actors that you will have more screen time with in upcoming
episodes?
Jimmy: Well again, go back to what I said a couple of
people ago is I’m sorry that I didn’t really get to do some work with Ryan
because I really, really, really have great respect for what he’s done as an
actor prior to the show, and how constant he was on Sons, and how much of a rock he was in so many ways. So there’s a kind of letdown there that we
didn’t really get to do anything.
I’ve got people that I
know like Danny Trejo and Benito that I’ve known—Benito I’ve known for ever. I
keep looking at them wondering—or Emilio’s character. Emilio was one of the people that I went to
talk to about gang stuff when I first got the job. I mean, I can’t wait to be able to do scenes
with him.
And of course Harold
P., my Brooklyn buddy—we’re both from Brooklyn, so we look at each other and
go, “When is Brooklyn going to be on the set …” you know? They’re a bunch of great people out there.
IQ: One of the things the fans were really interested in is whether or not Nero’s legitimate business
is actually going to be the escape for the club that Jax wants it to be, and
should that blow up if Nero is going to end up coming to blows with the Sons? And Jax in particular?
Jimmy: I’m not going to be able to talk about that
because Kurt—I know you have probably have talked to Kurt before. He is very—there are a lot of caveats when
you even talk to any kind of media outlet about not talking too much about the
future of what happens story-wise. You
know that he’s going to mix it up, and things are going to blow up.
I
can’t be more specific about that with regards to … and that whole
business. I mean, it’s safe to say that
I think that what we’ve seen so far, it’s a pretty sure bet that the club is
going to find this is a financial gain for them.
IQ: Okay. Here’s a question I think you will be able to
answer. How badly do you want to ride one of those bikes?
[A previous question
had asked Jimmy about his thoughts on Lucas selling the Star Wars franchise to Disney]
Jimmy: Oh man, you know—okay, so we just talked about
George Lucas, so I’ll segue like this.
So when I first had my first conversation with George, it was like,
“He’s going to talk to you. He’s going
to call you on the phone and he’ll talk.”
So the conversation was
kind of like, “I really like your work, and I’ve watched you before, and I
would like you to join our family. But
this conversation is not going to continue unless you are cool with the fact that
there will not be a lightsaber involved in the conversation.” So that’s the way we started that.
So similarly with Kurt,
that was the whole deal. If you were
listening before, I went to this thing for Paris, and then we had these great
little tete-a-tete social things with Kurt and Katie and Ron and all that
group. Then I got this call about—Kurt
wants to have a sit-down with you.
I was like, “Okay, when
is that going to happen?” So they
scheduled a sit-down for a couple of weeks.
Like I said, Wanda is a big fan of the show and was like, “You’ve got to
get—if this is about a job, you’ve got to get into this.” So the first thing I did was I started doing
my motorcycle research, and I got my motorcycle license.
So I’m riding with my
stand-in, who’s been my stand-in for 20 years, and I’m getting myself all
geared up for this, and we have this … to talk to Kurt. Much the same way as the Lucas thing he was
like—we can talk about Paris’s thing, and he’s always been a fan, and likewise
I love the work that he did on The Shield. He was like, “Okay, so before we continue
this conversation, know that we’re not talking about bikes.” And I’m like, “Oh no. I just got my license.”
But who knows, a Vespa
might be in Nero’s future. Who
knows? Albeit to say—to be honest about
this thing, I knew that there wasn’t going to be any—that bikes weren’t going
to be involved with regards to this character.
But in my heart, I’ve been riding and that’s just the actor in me.
If I’m going to be in a
Western—even if I’m going to be riding the stagecoach wagon, I’m going to learn
about horses just in case somebody says one day, “You know, maybe if Nero got
on one of the bikes that fell,” and then I’m going, “Duh. Duh. I
can’t ride. I don’t know how to
ride.” So I’m ready. If it happens, I’m ready—even for the Vespa
I’ll be ready.
IQ: Next season.
Jimmy: I’ll be ready.
IQ: I know you can’t say, but hopefully next season that can start with
you riding it.
Jimmy: Wow.
That was like a trick thing. Kurt
would be on me.
IQ: You’ve talked about
this turn coming with Nero. Can you say
is that going to be this next episode; are we talking very soon; or will we
have to wait a little while longer for that?
Jimmy: I’m not as up on the—the season is kind of
like a blur to me right now. I remember
the birds with this past week, right? So it’s coming. It’s coming soon. You know, little hints of it—it’s coming.
IQ: In your mind, why isn’t Gemma sort of being open with Nero about what she has to
do with Clay at this time?
Jimmy: Because I think that it traverses the bounds
even of this new, budding relationship that she feels comfortable with. I mean, I think that they still have …, but
those are deep, deep, deep wounds that go back prior to even the beginning of
what the fans know about the show. That
goes back to the original …, right? Yes, I think that’s probably one of the
reasons why she hasn’t gone that far.
You want to open—you’ve got to open these things up like an
artichoke. It’s got to be little by
little.
IQ: Can you just sort of talk more about your approach to Nero, because just
like whenever she was asking him, “Are we seeing each other?" And then the way you said, “I see you, Gemma,”
so sincere and so earnest. It sort of
makes us fall in love with him, which then I think will be the payoff whenever
he does this turn. It’s going to hit us
even harder. How have you made him just
so decent?
Jimmy: Well you know, in the framework of all of
these people’s lives—people don’t walk around thinking of themselves as bad
people, as bad guys. You’re part of the
environment that you grow up in, the socialization, and in that there can be
decency. I always try to find a little
glimmer of that in anything that I do because I think that those little
glimmers, finding places where there’s humor or lightness in something that’s
deep and profound, it tends to resonate more and makes people more human.
I think as an actor and
a performer, I think that resonates more with the audience when you do have the
turn and the payoff. So I’m always—it’s
great to be able to play the “bad guy” role because you get—you always get a
lot to do. But I’m always looking at the
why. How does a person get to that particular
point.
It’s those little cogs
in the wheel that make it interesting for me to play. Ultimately, I hope for the audience to be
engaged with it, because it is going to take a turn. That’s going to happen. That’s part of the schematic of the show,
right. So hopefully the audience will
understand why. When you talk about
things like violence and all of that, which are guideposts for this particular
series, you understand it’s kind of justified more.
IQ: We have seen Nero’s excellent driving skills, which was a very fun scene
to watch, but can you tease are we going to see any of his—you mentioned the
violence or the turn—is that going to involve any kind of signature move for
Nero? Will we find out more of what he’s
capable of?
Jimmy: I think weaponry will be involved.
In
the course of the interview, Jimmy also mentioned that he will be doing a play
in Chicago at Steppenwolf for the winter, so if you are going to be in the
Chicago area, you’ll have a chance to see him live!
Remember
to watch Sons of Anarchy, Tuesday
nights at 10pm.
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