I am still so surprised that Sam, not knowing what happened to Dean, just stopped hunting and found himself a girlfriend. I mean, that's good for him, normal life sounds healthy, but there's just sth wrong with him just letting go, I don't know, maybe that's just me...
I feel just the opposite. Those two are so screwed up because they always refuse to let things go and move on. Letting go is a step in the right direction for some much needed mental health.
If we go by history, I say throwing Sam to the wolves, but maybe Carver will surprise me. I still think we are going to get Dean the noble and Sam the selfish and until I see something different, that's all I'm going to hope for.
I agree. If Sam (and Dean) haven't learned by now, after soul deals, hell, AND after what Bobby said to them directly before this all went down, that at some point you just have to accept that people are gone and not try and bring them back from the dead (which as far as Sam knew Dean was dead), then he'd be the stupidest character ever written. Fortunately Sam is not stupid and I'm glad the writers wrote him as more mature.
So true. And if there would be one of the brothers with the ability to let go, esp after the events of the last 2 seasons, it would be Sam. Finally attempting to come to terms with himself. I for one and glad to see the boys growing, even if it's in ways that we don't completely understand just yet. Gotta let the season play out. Everything always makes much more sense at the end of the year than at the beginnning of the year. I'm looking forward to see how Sam deals with being drawn back into hunting and how Dean handles his purgatory issues.
Sam's not selfish, he's done everything but be selfish. And his intentions have always been good.
Getting a girlfriend during the year gone is not selfish. Normal people live a little even when a family member goes missing. Winchesters should be allowed to do normal human things sometimes. And Dean is far from perfect- yes even I, a person who favors Dean a bit more (only cause I am attracted to opposites of me more apparently) can admit that. They both have faults like every human being.
Exactly. One major Winchester butt-kicker is not being able to let go. Half their problems they themselves caused.
Dean breaking first seal because he made a deal and got killed and dragged to Hell, Sam breaking the final seal because he was desperate to get revenge and killing Lilith before he questioned anything. His guilt over his part in the release of Lucifer and of course start of general end of world led to Sam making sacrifice of saying yes to Lucifer, which ended up with him in the pit, which caused him to get a broken soul that needed a wall. Of course others were involved too. The villains playing a huge role in driving forces and then Cas plays a role in it too of course, both when he made good decisions and bad. Bobby was the rock in their lives. His influence was always positive, but still couldn't always stop them from doing something rash- especially when Sam and Dean had lost each other.
Boils down to the selling soul stuff. Mary got that ball rolling, then John, then Dean.
Wait. The demon deals are the source of ALL their problems.
But then, Sam and Dean wouldn't exist if Mary hadn't made her deal, and Dean would have died if not for John, and Sam would have died if not for Dean....
Well, from here on out they need to keep their hands clean of deals. This is about the 1st time on the show a problem caused by demon deals or angel destiny claims or others mistakes aren't lingering over their heads.
percysowner is a major Sam fan. She's making the point that she feels Sam has been mistreated by the writers. She's not calling Sam selfish but thinks that the writers have made Dean seem all good and Sam seem all bad and she's frustrated by this perception.
I want them to let go of guilt over things they had no control over and perceived past mistakes. Just not feeling guilty would go a long way towards mental health and would make the show less depressing.
Wow! Seeing Dean in this promo almost makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. He seems so much...darker. Especially that (feral) grin towards the end.
She isnt the only one. Unfortunately for past sl's Sam and perceptions have influenced how people view Sam . It is a valid concern the show will make that mistake again .
Even with the way Sam has been portrayed, i can't understand how anyone can say he is selfish.
Everything he has done has always been done with the best of intentions, even if they have sometimes not gone the way he thought they would.
Sam has always been the empathic one, tempering Dean's monster-killing certainties and teaching him that things aren't always black or white. Sam has said on many occasions that there is nothing he wouldn't do for his brother and in the end he sacrificed himself to certain torture in the Cage with Lucifer to make amends, even although it was Dean that started the Apocalypse and not him, with others contributing to that along the way.
It seems that Sam's good deeds get passed over in favour of the bad ,and Dean's bad deeds get passed over in favour of the good, but both brothers have done good and bad things in equal measure, which is as it should be.
It's very similar to season 1 setting in a way. Sam has given up hunting, and Dean obviously needs his help hunting down something evil. Softer Sammy and tougher Dean. That's what I'm getting from this video anyway.
You've rewatched it all more than I have. I remember Dean being mad at Sam for breaking the seal. And yelling about never forgiving him for, basically, having his own plan or from Dean's POV not doing what he told Sammy to do. But I never remember him being sorry he broke the first seal. Is there a scene where he apologizes to Sam for getting the sh*tstorm started?
Absolutely true, and no-one can certainly blame Dean for succumbing to the terrible tortures of Hell, but he was the "righteous man" who unknowingly broke the first seal and like a small snowball that rolls down a mountain growing ever bigger until it becomes and avalanche, that action set the whole thing in motion; with Sam then being led by the nose in releasing Lucifer.
So yes, it's fair to say that both Winchesters had a hand in causing the whole mess
In episode 5 of season 5 Fallen Idol Dean basically says it was his fault too, because he broke the first seal. Sam then says that Dean didnt know to which Dean relies that neither did Sam. It was basically acceptance of both their roles in it.
obviously some fans disagree and believe Sam to be selfish
Both went to hell Both lived a normal life while the other was either in the Cage or Purgatory Both broke a seal to start the Apocalypse Both have bemoaned the way they have lived their lives and their fathers role in how they turned out Both have done questionable things in order to save the other Both have put their trust in someone they shouldn't have Both have lied Both have thought they were right over the other
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Ooh, looks good! Really can't wait.
ReplyDeleteI am still so surprised that Sam, not knowing what happened to Dean, just stopped hunting and found himself a girlfriend. I mean, that's good for him, normal life sounds healthy, but there's just sth wrong with him just letting go, I don't know, maybe that's just me...
ReplyDeleteYAY!!! More videos!!! Love it =]
ReplyDeleteGood on you Sam
ReplyDeleteit may be a case of bad writing or could be a case of throwing Sam to the wolves?
ReplyDeleteI feel just the opposite. Those two are so screwed up because they always refuse to let things go and move on. Letting go is a step in the right direction for some much needed mental health.
ReplyDeleteIf we go by history, I say throwing Sam to the wolves, but maybe Carver will surprise me. I still think we are going to get Dean the noble and Sam the selfish and until I see something different, that's all I'm going to hope for.
ReplyDeleteSam the selfish? what the hell are you talking about...
ReplyDeleteI'm so ready for the season to start, I can hardly stand all the teasers
ReplyDeleteI agree. If Sam (and Dean) haven't learned by now, after soul deals, hell, AND after what Bobby said to them directly before this all went down, that at some point you just have to accept that people are gone and not try and bring them back from the dead (which as far as Sam knew Dean was dead), then he'd be the stupidest character ever written. Fortunately Sam is not stupid and I'm glad the writers wrote him as more mature.
ReplyDeleteExactly. Hooray for positive character growth. :)
ReplyDeleteSo true. And if there would be one of the brothers with the ability to let go, esp after the events of the last 2 seasons, it would be Sam. Finally attempting to come to terms with himself. I for one and glad to see the boys growing, even if it's in ways that we don't completely understand just yet. Gotta let the season play out. Everything always makes much more sense at the end of the year than at the beginnning of the year. I'm looking forward to see how Sam deals with being drawn back into hunting and how Dean handles his purgatory issues.
ReplyDeleteit looks really good.!can't wait!
ReplyDeleteSam's not selfish, he's done everything but be selfish. And his intentions have always been good.
ReplyDeleteGetting a girlfriend during the year gone is not selfish. Normal people live a little even when a family member goes missing. Winchesters should be allowed to do normal human things sometimes.
And Dean is far from perfect- yes even I, a person who favors Dean a bit more (only cause I am attracted to opposites of me more apparently) can admit that.
They both have faults like every human being.
Exactly. One major Winchester butt-kicker is not being able to let go. Half their problems they themselves caused.
ReplyDeleteDean breaking first seal because he made a deal and got killed and dragged to Hell, Sam breaking the final seal because he was desperate to get revenge and killing Lilith before he questioned anything. His guilt over his part in the release of Lucifer and of course start of general end of world led to Sam making sacrifice of saying yes to Lucifer, which ended up with him in the pit, which caused him to get a broken soul that needed a wall.
Of course others were involved too. The villains playing a huge role in driving forces and then Cas plays a role in it too of course, both when he made good decisions and bad.
Bobby was the rock in their lives. His influence was always positive, but still couldn't always stop them from doing something rash- especially when Sam and Dean had lost each other.
Boils down to the selling soul stuff. Mary got that ball rolling, then John, then Dean.
Wait. The demon deals are the source of ALL their problems.
But then, Sam and Dean wouldn't exist if Mary hadn't made her deal, and Dean would have died if not for John, and Sam would have died if not for Dean....
Well, from here on out they need to keep their hands clean of deals. This is about the 1st time on the show a problem caused by demon deals or angel destiny claims or others mistakes aren't lingering over their heads.
Oh, if only Dean didn't owe a vampire.
I think we just heard the ultimatum that divided Dean and Cas with Cas staying behind in Purgatory.
ReplyDeletepercysowner is a major Sam fan. She's making the point that she feels Sam has been mistreated by the writers. She's not calling Sam selfish but thinks that the writers have made Dean seem all good and Sam seem all bad and she's frustrated by this perception.
ReplyDeleteI want them to let go of guilt over things they had no control over and perceived past mistakes. Just not feeling guilty would go a long way towards mental health and would make the show less depressing.
ReplyDelete180 years in hell. Yeah, that's selfish.
ReplyDeleteWow! Seeing Dean in this promo almost makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. He seems so much...darker. Especially that (feral) grin towards the end.
ReplyDeleteShe isnt the only one. Unfortunately for past sl's Sam and perceptions have influenced how people view Sam . It is a valid concern the show will make that mistake again .
ReplyDeleteEven with the way Sam has been portrayed, i can't understand how anyone can say he is selfish.
ReplyDeleteEverything he has done has always been done with the best of intentions, even if they have sometimes not gone the way he thought they would.
Sam has always been the empathic one, tempering Dean's monster-killing certainties and teaching him that things aren't always black or white.
Sam has said on many occasions that there is nothing he wouldn't do for his brother and in the end he sacrificed himself to certain torture in the Cage with Lucifer to make amends, even although it was Dean that started the Apocalypse and not him, with others contributing to that along the way.
It seems that Sam's good deeds get passed over in favour of the bad ,and Dean's bad deeds get passed over in favour of the good, but both brothers have done good and bad things in equal measure, which is as it should be.
I don't think Cas stayed behind because of an ultimatum. And I don't think we'll be getting the full story of what happened so soon,.
ReplyDeleteIt's very similar to season 1 setting in a way. Sam has given up hunting, and Dean obviously needs his help hunting down something evil. Softer Sammy and tougher Dean. That's what I'm getting from this video anyway.
ReplyDeleteI'm saying I don't think they have, because I don't see Sam as selfish.
ReplyDeleteI think you need to reread what I posted. I was saying she does NOT think Sam is selfish. For the record, neither do I.
ReplyDeleteTechnically Dean started the seals breaking and Sam started the Apocalypse, but yes they both and others had a hand in getting to season 5.
ReplyDeleteYou've rewatched it all more than I have. I remember Dean being mad at Sam for breaking the seal. And yelling about never forgiving him for, basically, having his own plan or from Dean's POV not doing what he told Sammy to do. But I never remember him being sorry he broke the first seal. Is there a scene where he apologizes to Sam for getting the sh*tstorm started?
ReplyDeleteIndeed. Not beating themselves up about everything would go a long way toward finally accepting themselves for who they are as well.
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely true, and no-one can certainly blame Dean for succumbing to the terrible tortures of Hell, but he was the "righteous man" who unknowingly broke the first seal and like a small snowball that rolls down a mountain growing ever bigger until it becomes and avalanche, that action set the whole thing in motion; with Sam then being led by the nose in releasing Lucifer.
ReplyDeleteSo yes, it's fair to say that both Winchesters had a hand in causing the whole mess
exciting!! I cant wait
ReplyDeletethey said we'd find out what happened to Cas right off the bat.
ReplyDeleteIn episode 5 of season 5 Fallen Idol Dean basically says it was his fault too, because he broke the first seal. Sam then says that Dean didnt know to which Dean relies that neither did Sam. It was basically acceptance of both their roles in it.
ReplyDeleteobviously some fans disagree and believe Sam to be selfish
ReplyDeleteBoth went to hell
Both lived a normal life while the other was either in the Cage or Purgatory
Both broke a seal to start the Apocalypse
Both have bemoaned the way they have lived their lives and their fathers role in how they turned out
Both have done questionable things in order to save the other
Both have put their trust in someone they shouldn't have
Both have lied
Both have thought they were right over the other