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POLL : What did you think of Game of Thrones - Valar Morghulis?

4 Jun 2012

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140 comments:

  1. DarqueMode4 June 2012 at 03:09

    - If Tyrion opens his eye to see a jet plane crashed on an Island I'm out! XD

    - Well Margery certainly knows how to play the game better than Sansa! 
    Then again it does help to have a strong army behing you..... Unlike Sansa she also knows what she is getting into! 

    - Some viewers may be surprised, but I'm not. That was an awesome scene with Ros and Varys! The best gameplayer in the realms taking a new bird under his wing....

    - I love NCW as Jaime so much! His switching to a less haughty accent, the humor... the look of surprise and respect as Brienne dispatched of the 3 men with such ease and flare! AWESOME!

    - People in Westeros are as bad as in our world I swear! Just because someone did something bad before in no way means you should not lsiten to their advice now. Robb, Robb, Robb.... Listen to your mommy!

    - Love Dillane as Stannis!  I wish they would have gotten into The Prince Who Was Promised or Azor Ahai more though than just some generic  "You are the son of fire, you are the warrior of light" rhetoric....

    - I'm thinking those horns are what we heard in the pre-season trailers sadly.... I was so wishing we would see the Wildling army approaching the Wall!

    - This series could have used more of Donald Sumpter! He has been absolutely BRILLIANT as Maester Luwin! Theon's speech was nice too, right up to the point that Dagmer Cleftjaw shut him up If only he had shut him up 3 seconds earlier Theon would not have had a Howard Dean scream moment! XD

    - Sadly, I hope Tyrion gets accustomed to that make-up... At least Varys showed due respect!

    - Robb got hitched.... I hope that doesnt have any negative consequences! XD

    - Not sure why they used a tower as the House of the Undying seeing as in the books it was a flat building with no towers.... I'm not sure the pay off of Jorah walking around to not find Daenerys was worth it to me.... Stelllllllllla! OOps, I mean Khaleeeeeesi!

    - Arya wants to become a trained killer, but cannot.... yet!
    Goodbye Tom Wlaschiha as Jaqen! This man will miss you!

    - Wait!! What?? Um.... did Rickon just speak?
    *rewinding*
      Wait!! What?? Um ... did Rickon just speak??
    It was just as shocking the second time!

    - Summer and Shaggy Dog sighting!

    - Visons....wait only 1 vision? WTF!!!!!!!

    - Awwww The Stallion Who Will Mount the World and the stallion that mounted her world! AWESOME! I'm glad that made it in.

    - Pixomondo did very well with the VFX this season. Those dragons were awesome!

    - I may be in the minority, but everything in Jon's storyline this season was weaker than in the books. The Halfhand's death was a pale  comparison to the books.....

    - Dany's revenge scene did VERY little for me too.... Ack!

    - Thank GOD Dany's lame revenge scene was not the last because the final scene with the Whitewalker and his wight minions was AWESOME!!!!

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  2. Gregory Bryant Jr4 June 2012 at 03:11

    Had to give it an "okay".  After last week's episode it just wasn't special.  

    As a book reader, I was on the edge of my seat hoping that we would finally get a glimpse of Rhaegar, but they cut that out and really that's all I expected to see.  Dany becoming some evil harridan is also kind of confusing given what she does in the next book, but okay.

    All the other storylines were... okay?  Tyrion/Shae was probably the highlight.  Brienne and Jaime was very good as well.  Almost everything else didn't impress me.  I liked Theon though.  He's in for a hell of a season, sadly.
    Jon defeating Qhorin in a stand up fight? Come on.

    And then there was the ending.  I was expecting Sam the Slayer, but we got... I don't know.  I'm uncertain why they make some changes to  the narrative.  I guess they wanted to go out on a big note, but the one they left on felt uninspired.
    Also, was anyone else noticing all the green screening? 

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  3. DarqueMode4 June 2012 at 03:18

    It annoys me that the two stories most changed from the books, which also happen to be the two weakest arcs of the season by far were the bulk of the finale!

    Jon's changes all year long bothered me and the Halfhand's death scene was just sad compared to the books I agree!

    I have no idea why they changed any of Dany's story either now. All season I was hoiping there would be a big pay off at the House of the Undying to make up for the odd changes. Not so much.

    They really should have had Blackwater as the finale and inserted the White Walker army at he end for the final scene. THAT would have been truly epic.

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  4. Jason Bryden4 June 2012 at 03:25

    House of the Undying if they had done it as the books would probably have been as expensive if not more then Blackwater with the amount of special effects. Plus, for someone like Rhaegar you better have damn good casting even if its for a flashback.

    Lastly, this is still an adaptation. Book readers are simply fortunate to be familiar with the source material. But look at the show as a different take on it. Like with all things. And IMO, unless Martin objects to the changes, I'm good with them.

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  5. DarqueMode4 June 2012 at 03:29

     I have liked many of the adaptations.... just not much of the Jon or Dany changes I guess.

    I did not dislike them because they were changed (honestly both arcs could have used some changes to make them better than the books) I just did not like HOW they were changed.Oh well, still a great adaptation overall.

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  6. Caaio4 June 2012 at 03:42

    While that last Dany scene was ending I was praying REALLY HARD that wasn't the final cliffhanger. I was a bit disappointed that they just showed one vision, too, but we have to understand: They have a time and a budget limit. But I liked Dany's scene next to the Iron Throne, and I may have cried just a little bit when Drogo appeared.  I enjoyed Sam's face and I could even feel his fear when the White Walkers came through. THE WALKING DEAD WHO? Those things looked AWESOME! The rest was great... I'm sure not-readers didn't get the whole Qhorin and Jon thing, they should have made it just a little bit clearer. I think Varys just may be my favorite character now! I loved all his scenes this season, he got all the good lines and that actor just knows exactly how to play him.
    It'll be rough to wait till next year...

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  7. DarqueMode4 June 2012 at 03:55

    I know... and to be fair I guess it was 2 visions if you count her walking through the Iron Throne room with snow all over....

    The Qhorin scene was terrible as far as set up or explanation goes! 

    Goes to show people it is not the sex or the nudity.... and not even the created whore Ros that so many hate that made the poor scenes of the lst 2 years. It is bad scenes that make bad scenes.I  think that even the Ros haters must admit that the Varys and Ros scene was awesome!  Conlith Hill should be nominated for Best supporting actor this year... as he should have last year!

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  8. Gregory Bryant Jr4 June 2012 at 03:57

    I don't really get the thought behind "unless Martin objects to the changes, I'm good with them."  Do you like all the books because Martin wrote them?  Clearly we develop opinions on the things we see, and adaptation or not when someone sees something they dislike it makes sense to take issue with it.  In the case of this, we have source material that people LIKED and they end up seeing it discarded or changed on whim.

    Overall, I found S2 to be really weak.  It had its high points, like Arya/Tywin (which is added) and Stannis, but overall it was unfocused and gave the show's writers too much ability to manipulate things.  I'd really like it if S3 was a return to center where we got back to what people like.
    A primary example of the flaws in the changes is Robb and Talisa.  Because of them, Robb goes from a love-sick boy to being a man willfully destroying his kingdom.  And for what?  He does it with Catelyn giving him SOUND advice.  He's now an idiot.
    Also, I don't think it'd have been that hard to find an effeminate guy that could play Rhaegar.  Excluding him all together sucks, but it's par for the course.  I've lowered my expectations a lot for the show. 

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  9. Gregory Bryant Jr4 June 2012 at 04:03

    LOL. "Stella".  So true. 

    I also agree about Jon.  It was weaker, even though I like this Ygritte more.  Without Ghost being there and with Jon just kind of floating around people, it felt like he was a vehicle without a personality.  His lack of hesitation in killing Qhorin was kind of weird, like Dany locking Doreah in the room to starve to death. 

    Haha, Howard Dean.  Theon's one of my favorite characters but yeah, he's in for some... fun.  I liked his speech, though in the books wasn't Dagmer like an uncle to Theon? Pretty weird they'd make him into the guy that just ups and betrays him. 

    And yeah, I thought dany's finale was the end.  I was like "No way, this is horrible."

    I guess the Sam ending is the precursor to the prologue of ASOS? 

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  10. Gregory Bryant Jr4 June 2012 at 04:04

    Time can't be the issue.  They can waste time on scenes with Ros trying to feel up a eunuch.
    So it has to be budget, only all they really would need to do to at least placate the fans is have Rhaegar already be sitting on the throne and tell Dany she could have it if she wanted it.  Would that have been more expensive or time consuming, do you think? 

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  11. DarqueMode4 June 2012 at 04:20

    They really turned a few of the characters into idiots that were not so idiotic in the books.
    Robb for sure but even more so Daenerys...

    In the books she was struggling but knew she had to earn the Iron Throne and take her time., grow in strength and prepare so she would be ready and able to retake the Iron Throne. In th series she whined the entire season until she learned her lesson from Xaro Xhaon Daxos's empty  vault....

    Jon did one stupid thing after the next while in the books he was young, but not dumb. They changed the character a lot....

    None of those changes paid off to me. In fact the changes made each of the arcs weaker by far.

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  12. DarqueMode4 June 2012 at 04:23

    I was expecting Sam the Slayer too and I was shocked and pleasantly surprised by the army. I don;t mind them looking a bit TWD more than glowing blue-eyed wights honestly. It makes for better visuals.

    I too was pleased to gt Stannis dealing with his grief finally. Dillane is just knocking it oiut of the park as Stannis for me.

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  13. DarqueMode4 June 2012 at 05:28

    A few things that non-readers may need to make sense of the episode since a couple scenes were very poorly handled....

    The troops outside of Winterfell constantly blowing the horns that annoyed Theon were "Stark" bannermen led by Roose Bolton's bastard son. Roose had offered to send his bastard to Winterfell to reclaim it from Theon, but they never made it clear that Bolton's Bastard did in fact go there...

    The other confusing thing to me was the fight between Qhorin Halfhand and Jon...
    In the books it was clear that the Wildlings were going to kill both Hlafhand and Jon despite Ygritte asking to spare Jon. Qhorin and Jon conspired and Qhorin told Jon the only way one of them will live is if Jon kills Qhorin so that the Wildlings believe that Jon is a turncoat... erm, turncloak? 

    There was more to the plan, but I don't want to give anymore information than I need to explain why Jon killed Qhorin.

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  14. magnutude4 June 2012 at 05:41

    Having not read this book (yet), I voted it awesome for me, but can only imagine the delight I'll eventually have when I get to see how much more in detail this mind trip of an episode is on page, as the House of the Undying/Danys revenge and all the scenes beyond the wall although great, must of had a lot more layers to them. I'm finally in the home stretch of the first book, and hope that time will be kind and allow me to get to the second before summer's end... I cant wait.

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  15. DarqueMode4 June 2012 at 05:52

    I will be very interested to see if and how your opinion of this episode changes after reading the second book!

    IT was not that things were more detailed in the books... they were completely different! 
    Dany's story was almost entirely written by D&D this season and barely resembled the books outside of going to Qarth and Qarth having some of the same characters in name (those charcters behaved very differently though).

    There was more details in the house of the undying including Dany having 5 or 6 separate visions, some to the past and some prophecies of the future. I can see why the prophecies were not included since they would spoilerize events in the next year or two. 

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  16. DarqueMode4 June 2012 at 06:13

    Disagree on the Varys and Ros scene. That was a great scene to me. 

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  17. katherine_fan4 June 2012 at 07:23

    The episode didn't really begin for me until Dany had her dragons burn that guy!!Wow!Dany just owned this season finale as well as she did last year's!And that scene with Khal Drogo and the baby *tears forever* !!The last scene was bloodcurdling!It will haunt me for the rest of the summer!!INot my favorite ep,but it def had its moments!I'm disappointed with Robb's arc this season!He was 1 of my favorite characters in the 1st season and in the first ep of s2 he was a BAMF but the storyline with Talisa has been a *snooze fest* for me.RIP Maester Luwin!Seriously,I cried!CU next year!

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  18. Nick Scryer4 June 2012 at 07:43

    Thought it was awesome! HOTU was no where near as amazing in the books, but for what it was, I enjoyed it. I especially enjoyed Pyat Pree's death. (Even if it diminishes what happens next season a bit)

    No Ghost :(

    Everything else was great, Sansa's little smile was brilliant. Not sure why they cast Dontos...

    White Walkers at the end were MAGNIFICENT!

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  19. MeatyStakes4 June 2012 at 07:53

    It was pretty much what I was expecting, last season's tenth episode was too about denouement an setting the players for the next season, so it doesn't bothers me that  it was not as grandiose.

    I would have liked to see more action in the House of the Undying; as just a tv viewer, I don't know how it goes in the books, but it could have used higher stakes in some parts. Besides that, I loved Dany's visions, The iron throne claimed by the winter, the wall, and Drogo and the baby. That scene made me cry, no point in denying it.

    I really don't care about Jon Snow, all very meh in his storyline this season. It felt rather aimless.

    Back to Dany, it might have changed a lot from the books for what I have heard, but as a tv character, her development was nuanced and well done. Dany this season was all about power dynamics, what is to have power, what is to be under the power of others, treason and retribution, all very cloak and dagger. She grew up a lot this season, she is not the same girl that entered that funeral pyre just out of faith. I really liked her this season.

    All the other stuff, really good. The dead walkers were freakignly awesome! Natalie Dormer's tits! Loras <3 And I am a Ros fan, she's the little whore that could.

    GoT finale's feel very Epilogue-y, am I right?

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  20. Nick Scryer4 June 2012 at 08:10

    Also:

    *Book Spoilers*

    No Davos? :(
    I read an interview that said they filmed the imprisonment scene from aSoS. No show?
    With Irri's death, deleted SanSan scene and now this, and they say they can only do 10 episodes.

    Hopefully it doesn't mean it's cut all together, it better be in next year.

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  21. DarqueMode4 June 2012 at 08:29

    I'm really hoping that since from this point onward in the series they will not be following a one book = one season format that they use more of each book!

    There are a lot of scenes that need to be cut for sure. There are a lot of scenes that need to be changed to make the story flow better in the series too of course. Hopefully they will be able to arrange or rearrange scenes to make a solid mostly linear  story with a beginning, a middle and an end. 

    And please above all... don't have Daenerys as the star of the finale!
    This season she had no business be the focus of the finale with a slow plodding arc that went nowhere, but next year has even less of a climactic finale moment while so many other characters do in fact have big finale moments!

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  22. ShatteredOne4 June 2012 at 10:28

    As a non-reader of the books (right now, I definitely plan to read them soon), I was utterly confused about the whole Qhorin and Jon thing, didn't make any sense to me why they fought and all that.  Could you explain what it was for from the book?

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  23. DarqueMode4 June 2012 at 11:34

    In the books the entire thing was set up differently first off. 
    We learned more about Mance's history and just how amazing Qhorin Halfhand was. Basically he was a livign legend that always outsmarted the Wildlings no matter what they tried. THe was the Wildlings public enemy #1 and they wanted him dead.So that is one big difference to set up the situation....and then the second huge difference.....

    Jon did not run after Ygritte, he let her go and then went back to the rest of his scouting party. Eventually the Wildlings caught up to the rangers and Qhorin came up with a plan that would save Jon. If Jon killed him, the Wildlings might accept the killing of the legendary Halfhand as proof Jon Snow was no longer a member of the Night's Watch and therefore let him live.It was a much more poignant moment and truly meaningful to Jon.  It was the culmination of all of Jeor Mormont's lessons registering in his mind. 

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  24. tsavonglah084 June 2012 at 12:04

    Whoa so much you have to release in your post. XD

    Yeah, the eyeopening threw my mind for a minute also on the Island. lol

    I saw the preview of Varys and Ros, but am interested to see how their pact will go in Season 3. BTW, how the hell did Ros get released from Cersei's grasp. Might her wine-adventure softened Cersei's grudge against Tyrion? ;)

    Ih yeah, the Jamie/Brienne scene was funny at first and then totally intense. Though the dude's death was quicker than he deserved. Why not nick his artery and throw him in the river.

    Naja, your hope of the big Wildling attack has to be put on the bench for a while til they might reach it.

    Theon's lines in the castle before going to the courtyard made him a bit more sympathetic, but his Braveheart-try...thanks Dagmar to shut him up. Sadly we didn't get to see what they did with his body.

    What can go wrong with a quick wedding in the woods?? ;) *lesigh

    The architecture of the HotU also seemed strange for me. Of course they could give this visit more time with the endless sets of doors and many visions but how they pulled it off in the end, I'm ok with it. Although overall Dany's story was weak compared to the others, with the exception of her last two scenes. I wonder if they filmed the bit with Jason in Season 1.

    That was great how they showed the Faceless Men change his face without cutting away.

    I agree, here Jon looks like he had no idea what Qhorin's plan was and killed him only in self defense and Qhorin didn't let himself get stabbed.

    And the ending...knew what it would be due to the track list release of the Season 2 Soundtrack. But they still pulled it off with the VFX, even though the Season 1 ending was more chilling.

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  25. tsavonglah084 June 2012 at 12:05

     For a few seconds I also though of...Wait, don't the Walkers from The Walking Dead avoid snowy places. lol

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  26. tsavonglah084 June 2012 at 12:06

     For a second I was unsure if the Throne Room was covered in Snow or Ash.

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  27. tsavonglah084 June 2012 at 12:09

     If you are right, about Sam's scene as the ending serving as a platform for Season 3, next April should start with a Bang.

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  28. tsavonglah084 June 2012 at 12:11

     Yeah, the last three episodes Steven Dillane really made Stannis more multi-dimensional (even that goes against the book version) and I would root for him now.

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  29. Caaio4 June 2012 at 12:23

    Qhorin thought Jon had a better chance at surviving with the Wildlings and becoming a spy, so in the books he asked Jon to kill him. They pretended to fight, Ghost helped Jon to finish killing Qhorin and then Jon was taken. (If I said something wrong, please correct me). It was so badly explained in the finale...

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  30. Jim Fels4 June 2012 at 13:29

    I haven't read the books (yet), but I did get all of that. It might have been confusing for people who don't watch the show as much as me though!

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  31. Petr Šťovík4 June 2012 at 14:23

    loved the episode, i might be the only one that liked the HOTU scene on the show better than how it was in the books. Although, i do miss the prophecies. But i guess the Snow on the throne (not very subtle eh?) counts as a prophecy too. And it was pretty awesome and touching to see Drogo again. Only thing i am kinda dissappointed with is that we did not see any giants (pretty random right?) Ever since they were promised in some interview with D&D i kept looking forward to seeing them, i hope they don't cut them completely in coming seasons. And if Alfie Allen is not at least nominated for emmy i'm going to rage. i had some serious chills when he delivered that speech, wow.

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  32. Gregory Bryant Jr4 June 2012 at 14:50

    It's possible.  I mean, it'd make sense and it'd be a good opener.  But I feel they may be relying too much on the shock value of the white walkers/others only because by book 5 Winter still ain't here. 

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  33. Gregory Bryant Jr4 June 2012 at 14:51

    Conleth Hill is an awesome actor.  I just don't see more reason to validate Ros. Don't care if she wants revenge against Littlefinger and the others. 

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  34. Gregory Bryant Jr4 June 2012 at 14:53

    Nah, overall I have nothing but love for the styles of the show.  The walkers/wights looked COOL.  

    And what's funny is, I was initially thrown off by Dillane as Stannis.  I was like "THIS is the guy they picked!?" then I saw him in action and was sold.  I think it was "I didn't love Robert and he didn't love me" that did it.

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  35. tsavonglah084 June 2012 at 15:19

    Ahhhm at least parts of winter will be "here" somewhere along the way including book 5 (sorry if I won't be more specific). They even managed to visualize it in this weeks episode.


    But yeah if they go after the book and won't split locations in S3 & 4 like GRRM did in A Feast for Crows, they would really have to change a lot if this won't be in the first half of S3.

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  36. DarthLocke44 June 2012 at 15:27

    Hey I was wondering if you could tell me if that was a White Walker version of Drogo that was leading the army? I think that would be pretty sweet if it was. 

    I really loved the finale, but I am curious about the visions...especially the first one, was it an image of the past, or the future, or both? --On one hand it seemed like it hinted at the fall of the Targarians before, but also thinking that maybe the White Walkers could temporary provide an army for Danny (depending on the Drogo-esque factor, but I am probably wrong about this, because wasn't he burned?) or storm to 'the south', I also wonder if the white ash in the throne room, was actually snow?

    I def feel that Jon's storyline is not exceptionally momentous, but seeing where he ends up makes me feel that he will have more epic role next season, and I just chalk it up to the fact they have so many characters and only so much time to get to certain points without slowing everything down. 

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  37. DarthLocke44 June 2012 at 15:32

    I was wondering about that, because he was acting like he had a plan, but I wasn't sure if Jon really knew what it was, since he seemed pretty provoked. Thanks!

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  38. DarthLocke44 June 2012 at 15:57

    To be fair they may want to "milk" the books and drag out the arcs so that they can have more seasons, than books perhaps.

    I think they also don't want the characters to develop too quickly, because then they loose their appeal on screen. (For some reason the public is really critical about television characters) It's easier to not do this in the novels because you can convey build ups much easier with thoughts and language, than just a visualization of the events.

    Obviously, because I am reading the books after each season, my views are going to be different anyways, because I am not inhibited by the source material. (My expectations are different)

    I could understand why not to give Danny all of the visions...This way she might be able to get/or the audience may be able to get those visions later, because then the writers can better surprise and structure the information better to those that don't know anything about them. They don't make the viewer rely on one instance for information, allows for there to be 'more to get to' at another interesting time...

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  39. Lilith Hellfire4 June 2012 at 16:02

    you better trademark turncloak, LOL!

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  40. DarqueMode4 June 2012 at 16:16

    I'm pretty sure it was coincidence that the lead WW looked a bit like Drogo. I did not think of it honestly, but he did in a way now that you mention it ! XD

    I think the vision could be both future or past... The vagueness can be see a future different ways like any good prophecy I guess! XD I lean to thinking it ws the future, but I can be creative and see it as the past too.

    Jon's arc was one of my favorites from the book honestly. It did not have the most action exactly, but it had a lot of gravitas. Most of which was missing from the TV series arc I agree.

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  41. DarqueMode4 June 2012 at 16:18

    It could be ash like in the books, but it looked like snow to me.....

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  42. Lou4 June 2012 at 16:24

    So having read the book and knowing what was going to happen and thinking that they would find it hard to follow up from last week's episode I have to say how pleasantly surprised I was.
    This episode was so emotionally satisfying and devastating. That ending really took me by surprise after trying to work out where they would end the season then threw me a curve-ball and I have to save I loved it. Tied in nicely with Dany and the Dragons awakening magic again. Also Samwell will save us all one day, I am convinced.Winterfell - For those few moments I felt for Theon and with his deluded speech but then he does kind of deserve it.  Then the whole Maester Luwin Godswood scene just made me weep. Rickon got to speak! We saw direwolves! Those brave Stark boys begin their long journey...Kings Landing - Oh Tyrion my darling Lannister thanks for breaking my heart with Shae. The brief look of happiness on Sansa's face when she believes she is free then that is cruelly taken away by Littlefinger who tells it how it is.  I loathe Ros as I've said many times before but I do kind of love the idea of her and Varys working together and creating more delicious plans.Dany and the Dragons - Now the whole House of the Undying scene was so different from the book and yet this didn't annoy me. I really kind of love all the changes they have been making and kudos for the show for managing to keep that special guest appearance a secret!  I loved the empty winter damaged throne room and I liked that at last this season Dany took charge again. Her story is so frustrating in the books but I think they did a good job at rectifying that in part this season and hopefully that will continue.Brienne and Jaime's Excellent Adventures - Quite frankly the greatest pairing to exist. Thank you series for bringing parts of book 3 into this season. I love everything about them, I love adore how Brienne is loyal and has honour, she has her own code. TV critic Mo Ryan compared her to Omar from the Wire in that regards and I kind of dig that. Jaime's accent was the comedy highlight.

    Roll on S3.

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  43. DarqueMode4 June 2012 at 16:38

    I expected not to have all the visions, the House of the Undying scenes threw me honestly. I mean why call it the House of the Undying if they do not show or really even mention the Undying that reside there? XD

    Even though I liked the architecture and design of the building in the books MUCH more, I can why they used the tower  I guess. Less expensive to use an existing building than create a long flat, tower and windowless winding maze of a building that has a doorway like an open mouth! XD

    I know there were budget constrains, and I may be the only one...... but I thought the "Dracarys" scene in side was just flat and contrived. It had its similarities to the book okay, but without the story aspects missing from the books it felt rushed and way too easy to me. Dany walks in, dragons say "Hi. Mom" and kill Pyat Pree without much of a struggle whatsoever.

    I liked the next scene of hers with the empty vault though. Nice surprise to me. I did think the entombment revenge on Doreah and Daxos was out of character though. Dany is against torture of any kind.... and does not learn that people may need to be hurt on her road to the Throne for a few books yet! It struck me as a fun twist on the empty vault that was bragged about so much. The most wonderful un-crackable vault that held the treasure of the "richest man in Qarth" will serve as his empty tomb. Still felt so out of character though..... Mostly it felt like ti was D&D basically saying "You see what we did there...."

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  44. tsavonglah084 June 2012 at 17:40

    Yeah, in the BTS-videos they confirmed it was snow which is also a nice reference for the future. *hinthint*

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  45. Lemonworld4 June 2012 at 19:33

    JUST finished watching, some early thoughts:

    - This seductive, mischievous Margaery is fun!
    - The scene at the end was very Walking Dead, but man I liked that SFX or makeup or whatever. However I was totally not expecting that to be the season cliffhanger. I don't remember, where did book 2 end?
    - I wonder what Varys has planned for Ros!
    - Stupid, stupid Robb
    - Poor Tyrion! What a great scene between him and Shae.
    - KHAL DROGO !! Very surprised to see him again, but a pleasant surprise. The rest of the house of the undying scene was okay by me.
    - I was VERY glad when Jaqen "changed his face", because I was afraid maybe they'd leave that out.
    - One gripe: they're just continuously making Melisandre softer and softer. The whole choking scene, and Melisandre continuously groping Stannis REALLY didn't do it for me. Where's the menace? We should feel a genuine sense of fright when we see her!

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  46. DarthLocke44 June 2012 at 19:36

    Thanks! --I think the only reason I made the correlation is because her second vision/experience in The House of the Undying. Danny's interpretation was more like Drogo and their son were waiting for them in the after life, but I could see it that Danny slightly misinterpret, because 'house of the UNDYING' plays at life extension on multiple fronts, including a perverse view of something like a zombie-living-dead beings, or in GOT's terminology, a White Walker....but on top of that there were these lines about not being reunited until "the sun sets in the east"....I can't remember whom to credit this idea, but there was this quantum theory that dealt with the concept the universe is "broken" with reversed time/physics that a broken tea cup would reassemble itself and this idea stems around CPT symmetry...anyways something like 'living dead' coming in a winter storm may be considered a type of reversed quantum mechanics in GOT's mythology...and's what really made me think of Drago, besides some of the physical features and the black horse, because it would be putting those ideas together a little tighter.

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  47. Lemonworld4 June 2012 at 19:37

    Indeed, these are 2 things or nuances that I would imagine non book readers may not have picked up on. Too bad really because they're two major events!

    Pity we didn't get at least a sight of who was blowing the horn or who was at the gates... Or maybe just some Stark bannermen seen walking away from the burning Winterfell or something... Something to show the viewers there's something EEK about this bastard :-)

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  48. kwolfhard4 June 2012 at 20:00

    Did you ever see the short Conleth was in (that got the Award for Best Live Action Short in the Oscars)? He was really, really funny in that short.

    He also looked completely different (in addition to having a prosthetic arm).

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  49. Bruce_F4 June 2012 at 20:19

    Good episode.

     - Halfhand really got the shaft in this series.  (no pun intended)  From what I understand, he was quite a towering legend in the books but that didn't come across at all on the TV show.

     - Speaking of getting the shaft, suckstobeyou Tyrion.  Well, he's still got Shae so it doesn't totally suck.

     - Stupid, stupid Sansa.  You should have left with Sandor.  You're just sleepwalking from one ring of hell to another.

     - I'm glad we'll be getting more Margery next season but now it goes hand in hand with more Joffrey so the whole thing is a wash.

     - This episode had the best acted Ros scene in the series.  It was even better than the Ros / Littlefinger scene earlier this season.  Ros didn't even have a lot of lines but Esme Bianco did an amazing job being silently expressive with a wide array of emotions.  Bianco and Hill played off of each other amazingly well in their scene together.

     - Winterfell is toast.  It's okay though.  All the action is happening elsewhere anyway.  While I'm on the subject of Winterfell, a tip of the hat to Luwin and his portrayer.  He did a damn good job on this show.

     - Damn it!  Why can't they turn Arya into a badass killer NOW?  I don't have the patience to wait for such awesomeness.

     - Robb got hitched and it'll bite him in the ass but, given the choice, I'd probably end up doing the same thing in his shoes.  I guess that makes me as much of a sap as Robb.

     - House of the Undying should be a recurring character.  I wish it was possible for Dany to pack up that tower and take it with her.  We haven't seen enough of it.

     - I really liked Dany's scene in the tower with Pyatt and her dragons but the scenes with Xaro didn't have as much bravado as they should have had nor was Dany as menacing as I think she should have played it.

     - Stannis was having a real "Oh, shit what have I done?" moment until that crimson witch and her vagenda got in his head again.

     - Once again, Jaime Lannister makes it through another episode.  If Brienne really wants to do what's best for Catelyn, just kill the piece of sh*t already.  Please?

     - The white walkers.  The Whitewalker and his army were fantastic.  I was sold as soon as I saw the zombie horse.  Poor Sam.  You're so pathetic even the white walkers don't give a damn about you.

    Overall, I really liked this finale but there was a surprisingly insignificant body count.  I was hoping for more carnage.  At least Brienne knows how to bring the pain so a big thumbs up to my favorite armored amazon.

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  50. kwolfhard4 June 2012 at 20:20

    I totally agree about Alfie Allen.

    I thought he did an absolutely incredible job in playing Theon.

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  51. claudia__114 June 2012 at 21:21

    If I think of the season finale as a stand-alone series without a connection to the books it was great! Wrapping up whats left and having an impressive last scene! 

    But from the moment I connect it to the books, the episode was just ok.Usually i don't hate changes, especially if they are done for a reason! I didn't mind seeing Arya and Tywin talk for example, it was cool!But from the moment i saw that bloodrider killed in Dany's storyline, I started to get disappointed!And the changes kept coming and for what? So Dany can steal from Daxos?If they kept true to the books she wouldn't have to!I'm not surprised they didn't show anything significant in the House of the Undying! The info in the books was too spoilery anyway to even consider it! So i don't mind this change!

    About everything else? Well, ok..! You can't have everything!

    What i'm waiting for next season: Brienne-Jamie storyline and the Tyrells in Kings Landing!! 
    And the whole mess everywhere else! 
    A re-read is necessary in the meantime! 

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  52. vicmic084 June 2012 at 21:26

     I wasn't expecting that ending either, and I'm pretty sure book two's ending was the seen with Bran and the rest of the group emerging from the crypts and meeting with Maester Ludwin

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  53. the dane4 June 2012 at 21:28

    Glad to know that I wasn´t the only one that noticed the changes in Melissandres character. I don´t like what they have done with her at all.

    Ah, and I felt the same about Khal Drogo, it was so good to see him. Finally a Dany scene that I loved this season.

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  54. Rick Ganther4 June 2012 at 21:31

    I dont understand why everyone has such a problem with the Jon/Half Hand scene... yeah, its different in the books, you cant convey some things on screen... that being said, i think they did a tremendous job.  what i got from the scene without considering the background of the books was that the Halfhand pushed Jon's buttons just enough because he knew what had to be done and he had to make it look like Snow really WANTED to kill him... before the kill strike, Jon pauses, in that moment i think he was thinking, this needs to be done, a quick death for halfhand rather than what he would have at the hands of the wildlings... anyway i could go on, but well done in my opinion.

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  55. the dane4 June 2012 at 21:40

    Direwolves and Dragons. Good to see a lot of both!

    I liked the scenes in Winterfell. Both Theon scenes, but also the scene with Bran. Finally we soor the direwolves again. I have to say, I miss them some times.

    Poor Tyrion, poor Sansa. I really like Margaery. It´s gonna be fun to see a lot more of her story next year. 

    Loved Jaime and Briennes scene. Can´t wait to see that storyline unfold next season. 

    It was so good to see Khal Drogo!!! I didn´t like Dany´s story this season, but it seems as if I like it better when the Khal is present. It was also good to see the Dragons.

    I was waiting and waiting for the story North of the wall and all the good stuff came in the end. I really like Ygritte and can´t wait to see Jon´s story in season 3. And the Whitewalkers in the end - just brilliant. Made me think of the first scene in season 1. 

    Man, I hate that we have to wait so long.

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  56. the dane4 June 2012 at 21:43

    Yes, Alfie Allan did a fantastic job. It´s not easy to make Theon a character that you (almost) care for and what to see more of. Great season for Alfie/Theon.

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  57. the dane4 June 2012 at 21:48

    My guess is that the finale next year will not have focus on Dany or the North. But ofcourse that depends on how far they make it in the books. There is a perfect scene for a finale, it would be so strange is they didn´t use that oppotunity.

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  58. the dane4 June 2012 at 22:03

    I didn´t like the scene between Stannis and Melisandre at all. Stannis did a good job I guess, but Mel. seems so much weaker than in the books, and I don´t like that change at all. 

    I was expecting Sam the Slayer too. (I´m still hoping for it, next season).

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  59. Ijustgottagopee4 June 2012 at 22:05

    Hey, I haven't read the book yet, only watching...About Robb, I understand Talisa isn't in there and her character is kind of a substitute for a Lady Jeyne if I'm right. I have to say I like her spirit very much, though I admit they could have played the storyline better IMHO. But i don't understand why the "readers" are so disappointed in him. Can anyone explain that to me? Thanks:)

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  60. Lemonworld4 June 2012 at 22:09

     Well, in the books his romance with Jeyne plays out more off-screen, so I think for a lot of readers this is simply a new and unexpected series of scenes.

    Aside from that, as Cat said in the episode, Walder Frey is a dangerous man to cross so we're really just all calling out to our televisions: stupid stupid Robb! (at least that's what I did) :-)

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  61. Lemonworld4 June 2012 at 22:11

    Vagenda! :-)

    Very much agreed on the portrayal of Luwin. His final scene was amazing.

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  62. Donna C4 June 2012 at 23:04

     I'm pretty sure they used "turncloak" in the novels, too.

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  63. Donna C4 June 2012 at 23:07

     Talisa and Jeyne are nothing alike.

    ReplyDelete
  64. Ijustgottagopee5 June 2012 at 00:30

    Got it thanks!

    ReplyDelete
  65. Ijustgottagopee5 June 2012 at 00:31

    How's Jeyne?

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  66. laura33415 June 2012 at 01:44

    Hate to ask but what happened in the first 10 minutes,my cable box had to be rebooted and it took that long. When it came back on i saw Joffey,then saw  Sansa turn and walk away at first looking forlorn,but then she smiled,what was that about? 

    And who was that at the end? White ghosts?what were they?????

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  67. DarqueMode5 June 2012 at 02:02

    The truth is we don't know too much about Jeyne since she is mostly off-screen and fairly minor when she is "on page"....  She seems to be more lady-like and less independent than Talisa, but I can fairly easily picture this Talisa as Jeyne. 

    Maybe that's only because I never really paid much attention to Jeyne in the books? XD

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  68. DarqueMode5 June 2012 at 02:11

    You're probably right honestly...

    For me though, the book version of the story was heavy and powerful. Here is Qhorin Halfhand, basically the man Jon wants to be now that he is in the Night's Watch. Jon having to Kill Qhorin is basically like Jon having to kill a part of himself.

    I thought the TV series arc came off with little to no drama comparatively.. no real emotion.

    IT really is one of the few places where I directly compare the books and the series. I understand changes need to be made, but I don;t see why they did it this way I guess.

    On the other hand I get why they changed Dany's arc since it was so boring in the books. I just did not like what they did. Not sure what I would have done differently though honestly....

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  69. DarqueMode5 June 2012 at 02:15

    I'm hoping Melisandre grows and changes like Cersei did between seasons! XD

    Ok, I guess I mean how the actresses portray their parts of course. Cersei was so un-Cersei-like to me in Season 1, but Season 2 Lena Headey's performance as been great for the most part.

    Hopefully CVH will find the character and/ or the writers will better define the character for her. Right now Melisandre is very little like the Red Witch from the books.

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  70. DarqueMode5 June 2012 at 02:16

    Seriously!

    So much more important events happen in the rest of Westeros, Dany should have very little time in the finale in my opinion. Jon has some moments that could fit in the finale to me though, but as you said he still should not be the focus....

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  71. DarqueMode5 June 2012 at 02:18

    The scene bothered me more on second viewing. I think I was caught in the moment on first viewing...

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  72. DarqueMode5 June 2012 at 02:20

    Well in the books there were actual "Undying"  in the House of the Undying. So while there is some symbolism in the visions. the name of the building was more literal reasons.

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  73. DarqueMode5 June 2012 at 02:22

    I did not see that! Sounds interesting. I have seen him in some other projects and yeah he is almost unrecognizable! XD

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  74. DarthLocke45 June 2012 at 02:35

    was there a big difference between "Undying" and White Walkers? -Was there any link that these beings were in some way interrelated?

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  75. DarthLocke45 June 2012 at 02:46

    Joffrey had named Tywin his new hand and Margery Tyrell (Renley Baratheon's former wife), had proposed they joined houses and she would marry Joffrey. At first Joffrey says, no, because he felt he took an oath, but he is reassured that he wouldn't break anything, and so he accepts her, and Sansa is left to be confronted by Littlefinger, who basically tells her she's going to be abused, (but he was just given by Joffrey all of Harrenhal, since he brought house Tyrell in union with King's Landing) but promises to take Sansa back to Winterfell...

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  76. DarqueMode5 June 2012 at 03:33

    Oh yes.
    The Undying Ones are powerful warlocks that extended their lives via magic at a cost. Now they reside in the House of the Undying withered and old and somewhat between the worlds of the dead and the living.

    When Pyat Pree keeps saying "We" in the series it seems like he means himself and his multiples, but he means himself and the Undying Ones within the House of the Undying.

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  77. DarqueMode5 June 2012 at 03:37

    Just to add one bit to Darth's perfect summary...
    The entire scene played out like bad theatre. Like it was all a production for the people to hear, but Cersei, Joffrey and Pycell all knew Joffrey was going to take Margery and they just played their parts for the masses to see.

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  78. laura33415 June 2012 at 04:07

     Thanks Laura! I'll tell you i will have to read the books before i watch another episode.I don't mean all of them but certainly the first two. I find myself confused.i don't remember seeing the white ghosts ( for lack of a better,or proper word) before,and don't know who or why they are there? I realize its a lot of little things,i'm not complaining,just a little frustrated..

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  79. laura33415 June 2012 at 04:17

      With all of them knowing,i'm assuming that was in the book,and not explained in the episode? 

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  80. DarqueMode5 June 2012 at 04:26

    It was made a bit more clear in the books that it was all for show, but it was fairly obvious in the episode too. 

    Like Joffrey would ever let that he took a vow to marry Sansa stop him from marrying Margery ... as Joffrey says "The King can do as he likes!" XD

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  81. DarqueMode5 June 2012 at 04:31

    The White Walkers (your white ghosts) were seen in the opening scene of the first season. Well they were almost seen, glanced in shadows or in silhouette. 

    Plus they have been talked about a lot throughout the series really. They are the reason that Bran the Builder built the Wall centuries ago and the main reason that the Night's Watch exists. It's the watches job to protect the realm by guarding the Wall from the ancient threat.

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  82. laura33415 June 2012 at 04:44

     I seemed to recall them,i didn't remember that that was their name,or they were ancient...but that makes sense by the looks of them ha! About how many pages are the first two books (approx)? I don't know if i should just by them or take them out of the library?
     

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  83. DarqueMode5 June 2012 at 05:01

    US paperback versions are listed at 835 pages for Book I: A Game of Thrones, and 1009 pages for Book II: A Clash of Kings.
    Don't get too comfy with hose "small" books though since Book III: A Storm of Swords has 1216 pages! XD

    In other words, GRRM likes writing long books.

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  84. Wilson Crawford5 June 2012 at 05:09

    OMG that was awesome. A great way to bridge the second and third seasons. Just immense buildup... and what the frack!? The king beyond the wall... was she talking about that Walker king thing on the horse!? Whaaaattt?

    Gahhhh that was awesome.

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  85. Javier5 June 2012 at 05:56

    One question I didn't get. Wasn't Stannis captured in the previous episode?

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  86. DarqueMode5 June 2012 at 05:59

    No. Stannis's own men were restraining him and trying to pull him away in retreat.
    It did kin of look like he was captured though.

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  87. Nick Scryer5 June 2012 at 12:33

    Also they take Craster's sons! :O

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  88. laura33415 June 2012 at 13:04

     Ha!  And here i'm thinking 400 pages or so.I can usually knock off a book like that in two days,but that's for Patrica Cornwell or John Sanford,easy reading....but i think this will take a bit longer,lol.... I just downloaded it to my laptop. I think i better start today,maybe i'll be done in time ??????

     Is GRRM finished writing,or are there more books in the works?

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  89. the dane5 June 2012 at 13:25

    The King beyond the wall is a wildling, so it is not the WhiteWalker you soor in the end. LOTS of good stuff coming up beyond the wall. 

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  90. the dane5 June 2012 at 13:31

    The White Walkers are in the opening scene in the pilot. Also Jon fights one of them in season 1 (epi 6 or 7 I think) and burns his hand.
    When the horn blew 3 times in the end it meant Whitewalkers, that´s why Sams companions ran.

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  91. DarqueMode5 June 2012 at 13:35

    This could be a really interesting season for sure!
    Especially depending on which events make it into the Season 3 finale..... HUGE events.
    How will people react? I am soooo curious.

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  92. the dane5 June 2012 at 13:36

    I like Talisa/Jeyne just fine on screen, but they changed some things that I did not like. Catelyn did not know that Robb got married untill after it happend, and Robb fell for Jeyne while she was taking care of him (he got hurt somehow, forget what happend). 
    I think the actress is doing a fine job, but the story is not as interesting as most of the other things that goes on in Westernos.

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  93. the dane5 June 2012 at 13:39

    Lena did portray Cersei better this season, I agree. It´s gonna be hard for them to change Melisandre into the person she is in the books. But I hope that they will try, because she is gonna be around for a while.

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  94. DarqueMode5 June 2012 at 13:39

    Jon killed a wight when he burned his hand. It was one of the Night's Watch that died outside the Wall ranging named Othor.
    http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Othor

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  95. the dane5 June 2012 at 13:41

    I love Jon´s story next season, but the RW must be the perfect setting for a finale. Rigth?!

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  96. DarqueMode5 June 2012 at 13:43

    It will be hard... if not impossible.

    I felt CVH was all kinds of wrong for Melisandre the first time I saw her in the role. I don't blame her so much since I have seen her in other roles and found her quite good.

    I think that D&D or the directors have an entirely different idea of who Melisandre is than I did when I read the books.

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  97. the dane5 June 2012 at 13:45

    I know. I really really hope they don´t change the big events. On TB they let people live that doesn´t survive. I hope that is not the case here. But people will have some BIG reactions I´m sure.

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  98. DarthLocke45 June 2012 at 13:51

    It hasn't been made clear in the show yet, but I think there are also "Wights", --corpses raised and reanimated on behalf of the White Walkers. There was one in the opening scene in season 1 and then I think another attacked someone on the wall...It seems like the "Wights" in some cases go back to continue fighting (assuming many men died in battle)....

    I don't have enough knowledge of the series to know what really separates all the different 'living-dead' species, but IMO it seems like they are interrelated to this idea of both history repeating itself, but also perhaps this idea that the dead are fighting a war too...(the will to live?) But I am also unsure for fact that the White Walkers are exactly dead...it may be that they're a magical species that controls the dead...It seems like the series attempts to challenge these notions by allowing the viewer to ask what 'dead' is in GOT universes. --But something tells me the book readers know a great more about this than I do! (Looking for Darque to further explain)

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  99. the dane5 June 2012 at 13:56

    I agree. I think they simply wrote her part differently. Maybe they have a reason too (like Stannis looks stronger), but I like it better in the books. She will have a part to play when she moves to a different location later, and it just doesn´t seem like it fits the Melisandre in the series.

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  100. laura33415 June 2012 at 13:59

     Ha! Yeah i was always do! I call him Professor when it comes to this show,he really should teach a course in this!  ;)

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  101. DarqueMode5 June 2012 at 14:14

    SEASON 3 SPOILERS  BELOW
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -
    -


    I cannot decide if RW will make it into Season 3 or not. In the books it takes place 75% through or so so it really depends on how they split the book up...I know in the UK they split Book A Storm of Swords into 2 books: Part 1: Steel and Snow and part 2: Blood and Gold. So there are a number of natural break points for the multiple character arcs.... just not as dramatic as RW of course.Part 1 ends at Chapter 41 so we could end with....- Jon's escape is a perfect point.-  Bran at the Queen's Tower, - Either Arya seeing Hound vs Lighting Lord or  Arya seeing the Brotherhood Without Banners vs the Bloody Mummers.- Tyrion and Sansa.- Vargo's bear pit- Davos is the Hand, - Robb gets invited to Edmure's wedding.- Dany at YunkaiThere is a fair amount of action and drama going on in each of the character arcs at those approximate middle points. That might make for a good last 2 episodes....

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  102. DarqueMode5 June 2012 at 14:31

    A lot of it is still a mystery to the readers, or at least to me! XD

    The basic scenario is this though....
    Centuries ago the was magic all around and the dragons still lived. The dragons died off, and on Westeros magic basically went away too to a large degree. 

    Once Daenerys's dragons were born all sort of odd things happened. A red comet appeared in the sky, Dire Wolves appeared in the North for the first time in decades, magic returned to the warlocks, and the White Walkers started to rise again causing a wight infestation beyond the wall. 

    Everything is related... 
    In the books there are vague prophecies of 2 heroes that will rise to be saviors of humanity. Maybe it's one hero and the same story told in different prophecies... There are no real details and of course the series has not even touched on the prophecies much at all.

    So the mystical elements of the story are still very mysterious to me at least. Although from what we have seen so far it does appear there is a direct connection between the White Walkers and the dead no longer staying dead beyond the Wall.

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  103. DarqueMode5 June 2012 at 14:40

    HA!
    I have a basic understanding  of the books... and a lot of theories as to how things will turn out in the next 2 or 3 books whenever GRRM writes them. 

    I am hardly an expert though. 
    Just understand enough to explain the basics I guess. Plus I am on here enough (and have the time and desire) to answer questions... I'm sure that there are many others that know as much as me and many that know more!

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  104. laura33415 June 2012 at 15:12

     Now your being modest Darque! I always read everything that is posted here for GOT,and you have more than a basic understanding! So okay, if you feel funny about being called Professor,i'll just have to call you Teach  ;)

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  105. DarthLocke45 June 2012 at 15:13

    I just finished AGOT a few days ago, and it really does give a better understanding...Plus I think seeing names written over and over helps keep everyone straight (But HBO's main GOT site really has done a nice job with people, houses, and interactive maps showing battles, including a couple taking place before the series starts dealing with Robert Baratheon's rebellion!)

    I will probably start ACOK at the end of the summer, I have a few other books I have been meaning to read that I have been putting off! XD

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  106. laura33415 June 2012 at 15:44

     I downloaded the books this morning to my laptop,i see i'm in for the log haul on this,and i still have three books i haven't started yet! Your so right about seeing the names over and over,that is my biggest problem not remembering who is who. At least you started reading the books,and yes HBO has some good stuff on GOT!

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  107. the dane5 June 2012 at 19:06

    Hmmmm....I think I have to read book 3 again. I didn´t remember it being so late in the book. But all the things you mentioned above could be a great ending to season 3. Well except Dany. I really hope she doesn´t get a big part in the finale. 

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  108. the dane5 June 2012 at 19:13

    There is still more books to come. He wrote 5 and is writing nr 6 now. He planned to have 7 books, but I doubt that it will be enough to finish the story. 8 or 10 seems more likely. BUT if it takes him 5 years for each book.....well, you do the math.....

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  109. laura33415 June 2012 at 19:36

    Yep,he'll be ancient and i'll be really old!

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  110. Lilith Hellfire5 June 2012 at 20:52

    I know, that's why the LOL! was used

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  111. the dane5 June 2012 at 21:26

    yep, me too. He better hurry up!!!!

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  112. Gregory Bryant Jr5 June 2012 at 21:35

    I don't get why people are so hard on Melisandre.  Until ADWD she is EXACTLY like she's being played - a one-dimensional woman who you think is a charlatan.  Try to think back to when you first read her.  She didn't do anything spectacular, she just seemed like a nut.
    It wasn't until I saw her away from Stannis that I began to feel for her, and that was when she was playing off [someone else]. 

    Because so much of Stannis' development comes from things they cut (IE: Edric Storm),  they have to introduce it in other ways.  His remorse over killing Renly was poignant and Melisandre managed to maneuver him as needed. 

    Do you guys just dislike her because Ros introduced herself first as "hot redhead"? Because I'd love nothing more than for Ros to feed the flames. 

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  113. Gregory Bryant Jr5 June 2012 at 21:37

    The issue with cutting Rhaegar and the past is that viewers really have no reason to want the Targaryens to come back.  We hear about Aerys, who was a nut, and Viserys we saw to be a nut.  So really we get the sum total of "two crazy guys and a woman whored to a horse lord."  Not the most glamorous house, is it?

    Had Rhaegar been depicted and Dany was awe-struck it'd be a reason for not only her to be motivated, but also the viewers to get a glimpse of what the Targaryens were renowned for.  

    I also don't think television viewers are very critical in their thought at all. They're very simple to please and boring, which is why HBO just cut storylines and upped the T&A.

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  114. Gregory Bryant Jr5 June 2012 at 21:38

    When was Melisandre ever considered not to be "soft"?  If "soft" means using her femininity to gain what she requires.  She was NEVER menacing to Stannis.  And when was she frightening?

    GRRM describes her pretty much as a walking arousal. 

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  115. Gregory Bryant Jr5 June 2012 at 21:39

    What do you feel made her un-Cersei-like?  That she wasn't a drooling moron in S1?  GRRM's characterized Cersei the worst of all the recurring characters.  The TV show has done her justice in making her vindictive, perhaps incompetent, but not an idiot. 

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  116. Gregory Bryant Jr5 June 2012 at 21:40

    We get good glimpses of her from Jaime's perspective in AFFC. It's safe to say she's nothing like Talisa.  She's more like Sansa. 

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  117. laura33415 June 2012 at 21:44

     LOL ;)

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  118. the dane5 June 2012 at 21:46

    In the books I always got the feeling that she was a lot stronger. She seems weak on TV. Stannis seemed weak to me in the books, and he comes of stronger on TV. It really bothers me. I think the actor playing Stannis is doing a really good job, but it bothers me so much what they have done to Melisandre, that it ruins all his scenes for me. Except the ones with Davos, I enjoy those.

    I have excepted Ros as part of the show, so it has nothing to do with her. I really liked her scene with Varys in the finale. 

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  119. DarthLocke45 June 2012 at 22:56

    It's really worth seeing, because even how Littlefinger goes about shattering Sansa's assumption that not marrying Joffrey is good news, does he do a philosophical paradox around her by telling her she's better than everyone else, and then turns it around by saying she's surrounded by **liars whom are better than she is...(you can either take it that what he first said is true, because he revealed that everyone else is a liar after the fact-like a curticey, or you can assume the second thing he said he believes to be true, because you can't trust him either, therefor what good is his promise?!)

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  120. laura33415 June 2012 at 23:13

     I'm going to be watching season one and two again,but yes i missed more than i thought with the season finale. I was going to check it out today but the time flew by,maybe tomorrow..

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  121. DarqueMode6 June 2012 at 00:52

    I always read Melisandre as more menacing honestly. Like you could feel the power coming off of her and just knew to be wary around her.

    CVH seems almost mouse-y to me.. small and fragile. Where I read Mel as larger than life because of the strength of her convictions and devoutness to R'hllor.

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  122. DarqueMode6 June 2012 at 00:55

    I did not think that Lena had the fire of Cersei in Season 1. I thought most of her deliveries were really flat.. .the eyebrow arch annoyed me too.

    I always felt the anger at the world for for the fact she was not born a man right under the surface and that she was ready to lash out at anytime someone stoked the flames. Like this season.

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  123. Gregory Bryant Jr6 June 2012 at 02:08

    Really?  I'm a pretty unabashed Lannister fan and it was Cersei that really made me appreciate the show.  They nuanced her more in S1 and reminded us she was in Robert's shadow for the most part, which kept her relatively sedate.  

    The arching of her eyebrows and the glacial smiles always were really great. 

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  124. DarqueMode6 June 2012 at 02:17

    Different strokes I guess... 
    I know a lot of people liked her or even liked the tweaked version more. I just always felt she was the most miscast of the series in Season 1, but she grew on me somewhat this year. Still my least favorite of the Lannisters in the series though. Well, maybe I like her more than Lancel and Alton! XD

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  125. Gregory Bryant Jr6 June 2012 at 13:57

    I'm not being difficult here, but I'm also not sure if we read the same books.  Melisandre was never a "strong" character so much as a devoted one, which Carice certainly shows.  Otherwise, the character was largely just someone that went around burning idols and making shadow babies.  We can't conflate her role in the later books with expectations from this one or we do the character a disservice.  

    I'm also uncertain why you viewed Stannis as weak.  He doesn't show any "loss of conviction" until ASOS when he's speaking to Davos.  Of the many ways that the show has disregarded the source material, this is not one of them. 

    So I guess I'm not really certain what you consider strength to be. Melisandre convinced Stannis not to kill her by making him become even more devoted to the Lord of Light.  Did you want her to beat him in an arm wrestling match? 

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  126. Gregory Bryant Jr6 June 2012 at 13:58

    Menacing, really?  Weird.  It must be because GRRM constantly talked about how attractive she was that I saw her as a seductive power, not an overwhelming one. 

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  127. Gregory Bryant Jr6 June 2012 at 14:00

    In the list of favorites, it'd go:


    1. Jaime. 2. Tywin. 3. Cersei 4. Kevan. 5. Tyrion and then you have like Tommen and Mycella and  lesser Lannisters.  
    But I don't know, the book made her go from relatively intelligent to outright stupid. Without saying spoilers, I found myself laughing at how cartoonish she was in AFFC. 

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  128. the dane6 June 2012 at 17:06

    When Stannis goes off to Kings Landing to win the Throne, Davos tells him to leave Melisandre behind. Davos and the rest of the crew seems to think that Stannis can only win with the help of Mel. Because of her magic ofcourse. That is why she is strong - because of her magic. You are right, her devotion also makes her strong.
    Calling Stannis weak was probebly wrong of me. I think he leans on Melisandre for guidens and if she was to leave him, he would become weak. 
    It seems as if we understand the book differently. And as I said in a different post, it was good to see that I was not the only one who does not like how they portray Melisandre.

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  129. the dane6 June 2012 at 17:33

    Also.....I think the reason that people (you know who) tries to kill her is because they see her as dangerous. When people in the book describe her it is with fear. 
    I guess why I called Stannis weak in another post is because he follows Melisandre instead of taking the lead on his own. I see him as intelligent and strong, but yet he goes to her for counsel.

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  130. DarqueMode7 June 2012 at 01:01

    He is a strong leader, but I always felt that him that changing his religion and falling for Melisandre's prophecy mumbo jumbo was not about him truly believing. I always took him as falling under Melisandre's "Spell". 

    Maybe he truly believes he is the savior? 
    If that is the case there are other issues at hand too! XD 

    No sane person thinks they are the savior of humanity.... 

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  131. DarqueMode7 June 2012 at 01:05

    Oh I like Cersei more than the lesser Lannisters .... even the kids too!

    Book ratings would be 1. Jaime, 2. Tyrion, 3. Cersei, 4. Tywin, 5. Joffrey

    Series would be 1. Tyrion, 2. Tywin, 3. Jaime (likely to go up soon), 4. Joffrey, 5. Cersei

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  132. the dane7 June 2012 at 05:52

    That is how I see it too. He is under her "spell". 

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  133. Mia4947 June 2012 at 23:45

    FINALLY I got to watch it and well, for the most part, I loved it.

    1. King's Landing:
    Nicely done, nicely acted by everyone. I still have issues about Littlefinger stealing Sandor's line again, but I guess they just wanted to prepare the Sansa stuff for season 4. I was kinda disappointed they went and made it so obvious that it'll be Littlefinger to take her away from there,though. And yeah, poor girl. It just never gets better for her.
    Tyrion's scar was supposed to have made a ruin out of his face, all he has here is a nice pretty scar. But well, maybe Peter is just too handsome to waste it ;)
    I'm looking forward to the King's Landing stuff to come. Good stuff it will be indeed. And knowing they're casting Olenna makes me even more execited for all this.
    I'm not gonna comment on Ros being there again.

    2. Arya
    Short scenes, but man, I love Jaquen. Funny thing is that they pronounce valar morghulis so much different than I do in my head. I really have nothing more to say than that I love the casting they made for Jaquen. Too bad that's it for him... at least for now.

    3. Robb
    Please. This is getting riddiculous. They make him look so terribly childish I can't bear it. It's like he's asking for it himself. ("it" being you-know-what)

    4. Winterfell
    So Theon Greyjoy does have a heart? who would have known? they've definitely given me a better insight on the character than the books.
    I actually almost cried when I saw Winterfell burnt down and destroyed. I love that Rickon is getting some more screen time lately, even if it's still so limited.
    I can't wait for the Reeds.

    5. beyond the Wall
    the Jon vs Halfhana showdown was a far cry from the scene in the book, sadly. I mean, "tell Mance he's the man who killed Halfhand", really? anyone of them could've gone and killed him on the way. It made so much more sense in the book where Jon killed him BEFORE they were captured by the wildlings. Or more like, during the capturing. In any way, the TV scene kind of took the sense away from it, just like it did from Robb's marriage.
    However, I LOVED the Others. LOVED. I watched the scene with my mouth open and I'm a reader, so I knew it was coming. And people, Sam the Slayer didn't appear until book 3, if I recall right. He did not kill the Walker during the attack, he killed him when they were running away AFTER the attack. So keep your hopes up ;)

    6. Daenerys
    I actually really liked the House of the Undying and the Drogo scene was cute, but I also missed Rhaegar. I want to see him finally! The guy fascinates me. He's the only Targaryen I've ever been interested in.

    All in all, I was honestly expecting a bit more from this season, but I'm still soooooo excited for season 3. We'll get to stuff from A Storm of Swords finally, to the real drama! Caaaan't waaaait!!!

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  134. Mia4948 June 2012 at 01:15

    So there are people who actually like Ros? Wow.

    Robb really should've known better. He is familiar with an old creep called Walder Frey, after all. I understand the young passions of love, but in the book it was actually honor that made him marry Jeyne. He chose her honor over his. In the show he's acting like a delusional child who believes love can conquer everything and - I don't know, that Frey will generously forgive him when he finds out how wonderful Talisa is. Well, guess what, he won't. And as a king, "fighting a war, not playing at one", he should've had different priorities. People say Sansa is naive? Try Robb.

    Oh yeah, and about Sansa. What you're saying is exactly why I hate how they altered her scenes with Sandor. Now people think she's stupid. Of course she should've gone with the TV Sandor, gently asking her if she wants to go home. In the book the guy came to her chambers completely drunk, slept in her bed, threathened her life with a dagger and forced her to sing. I love Sandor but I don't like how the show gentles him up.

    I know I complain a lot (but I was raised by the Supernatural fandom and "for fans, they sure do complain a lot" ;)). Maybe I shouldn't have read the books after all. I still love the show, I cherish every episode, I just don't like how it makes silly idiots out of the characters I love.

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  135. Bruce_F8 June 2012 at 20:02

    "So there are people who actually like Ros? Wow."

    I have no strong opinions of Ros one way or the other but I have no problem giving credit where credit is due.  Esme Bianco has done an admirable job with the material she has been given.

    "Of course she should've gone with the TV Sandor, gently asking her if
    she wants to go home. In the book the guy came to her chambers
    completely drunk, slept in her bed, threathened her life with a dagger
    and forced her to sing. I love Sandor but I don't like how the show
    gentles him up."

    It's only the TV version of Sandor that counts.  You can't ask the TV version of Sansa to base her decision on the book version of Sandor.  It wouldn't make any sense.

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  136. Sandra Hero8 June 2012 at 23:54

    Drogo: "Maybe I told the Great Stallion to go f*** himself" Only on a show as awesome as GoT would you ever get a line like that!

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  137. Lissie_Bee12 June 2012 at 07:13

    Wow, it's hard to believe that I'm JUST now getting around to watching the finale. I think it was a bit of a letdown after Blackwater, but I expected that, so my hopes weren't dashed. I did like a few things, though. Jaime and Brienne were fantastic, and I suppose I appreciated how Dany has changed over the past two seasons, even if her "revenge" was a bit meh. I was MASSIVELY let down by the House of the Undying, though. I was super intrigued by it since we first heard of it, and maybe my expectations were unrealistically high, but I was unimpressed. Still, I expected this episode to set things up for next season, so I could appreciate it for what it was. 

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  138. DarqueMode12 June 2012 at 17:38

    The House of the Undying was a huge let down in general. I knew they could not do everything from the books (6 visions, most would be FX heavy), but to only do one vision of Drogo and Rhaego was annoying to me. For me the thing about the HotU was how it connected Dany to the rest of the plot. That was the most important part of her entire season. To find out how she fit in with the mystical elements at play on the other side of the world. They should have and could have found a way to do that without breaking the budget....

    The series really has not touched on prophecy yet and that is a HUGE part of the books. It is a second parallel story going throughout the series. As some fight for the Iron Throne in the main story, some will fight for the survival of Westeros against the ancient White Walkers. So far they really only make it seem like Jon has any role in that (maybe Stannis if people can read between very vague lines), but Dany and others have roles to play too.

    I won't even go into the logic holes of the HotU like Pyat Pree saying how powerful the dragons are with their mother Dany around... and then standing conveniently directly in front of them so they can burn him etc. XD

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  139. prpleight24 June 2012 at 05:50

    It took me a couple of weeks to get around to watching the last two episode. I was getting pretty bored with the Kings Landing stuff (especially considering the previous ep was all about the first battle of the war. I wanted to get to the good stuff. Jon Snow and Daenerys stories. (For the record I haven't read the books...and while the big medieval intrigue stories are interesting and well told they're tried and true stories that I've seen numerous times before. John and Daenerys' stories have always been my favorite primarily because they are more unique; especially the Dothraki story.)


    Finally, we got to Arya, Jon Snow and Daenerys. Yay! Sadly Arya just got on a new path. Daenerys found her dragons. (Dude! What did you *think* was gonna happen when you put fire breathing dragons with the person who (a) makes them stronger and (b) gives them direction?) Loved seeing Kahl Dragon for story reasons as well as...well the actor is at the tippy top of the list of hot actors working these days! :-) The baby was adorable. The fire breathings scene sent me to my happy place! My happy place got warmer and brighter when I saw the Zombie army...who had all the fun designing the zombie horse!


    Can someone tell me what I call the thing with the blue eyes riding the horse? Is that the king they were talking about? He has a zombie army....which is just the height of awesome.


    Sadly I get the feeling I'm going to have to continue to spend most of my time next season with Starks and Lannisters but hopefully I won't have to wait til the last ep of the season to see more zombies.


    Seriously, those zombies took the ep from a great to an awesome.

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  140. prpleight24 June 2012 at 06:11

    Hmm, coming at this from a more "pure" point of view (never read the books and have no desire to) I haven't been reading Robb or Daenerys as idiots.


    For me Daenerys didn't whine the whole season...to me she came across more as a teenager in a room full of people she knows are smarter than her struggling to look like she is as smart. She had that tendency to overcompensate and bluster too hard...which you eventually learn only telegraphs your insecurity louder. Also, I think a huge problem is that they only played one beat of her story. That story was relegated to maybe 4 mins per ep. If she were, say a B-story in a typical American drama they'd have a lot more time to tell her story and she might have whined in the first episode and been done with it by the end of that ep.


    As for Robb. Other than having his nose wide open for his first love I never got a sense of him making a lot of bad decisions. I'm not sure if the comparison of the impression from yours to someone who hasn't read the books but I thought I'd share.

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