I recently got the chance to speak with Person of Interest's Michael Emerson (Harold Finch) and executive producer Greg Plageman about the show. They discussed many things, including the show's syndication deal with WGN and Netflix, Finch's development as a character, 'If-Then-Else', The Machine being rebuilt, the show's use of surveillance and more. Check out what they had to say below.
On whether season five being the final season would be satisfying
Greg: As a writer here from the very beginning with Jonah (Nolan), one thing we felt very adamant about was that we would be able to tell a complete story on the show. This has always been a show where, you know, every season finale felt like it could have been a series finale. And this year will be no different.
Michael: I feel like we kind of wrap things up every season. And so I think we’ll kind of continue in that same vein, maybe with a hint more finale feeling. But at the same time, I think probably the writers are going to leave it a little bit ambiguous, because we don’t know if it’s the end of POI as we know it or not. So we kind of have to juggle that.
On the show going to WGN and Netflix for syndication
Greg: I think it’s just a chance for WGN to come up with, you know, a thematic promotion. Those (Blue Bloods and Elementary) are fine shows as well. I think our show perhaps is maybe a little bit more genre, a little bit more serialized in that regard. But we’re extremely grateful to WGN for giving us the opportunity. And we’re more than happy to promote their prime crime lineup, as they call it.
There’s always been some issues, you know, in terms of, you know, studio networks have their own rules, rules set by which they can allow something to go into syndication or streaming. And I think all those things kind of held up the show (from going to streaming) for a number of years.
And we have to tell you that we're very excited about both these entities promoting the show and giving people an opportunity to catch up, because after a certain number of episodes, the show certainly does become an obstacle unto itself, in terms of people maybe not being able to keep all with all the worlds and characters and storylines. And we think this is a great, great, opportunity for the show.
Michael: I would just like them to be entertained. I would like them to have fun and have some laughs, and white knuckle the living room chair for a while, and come away from it with something to talk about.
Greg: And, you know, I would love it for people, and whether it’s young people or older folks - I don’t really care - to be that show where if you missed it the first time around, it was the show that someone said, “Do I need to be watching that?” People say, “Yes.” And they have an opportunity now to see it and say, “That show was sneaky good and you missed it.” Now you can see it.
On Finch's development
Greg: From the very beginning, Michael has been extremely collaborative with us in developing his character’s back story and, you know, delving into even, you know, mining all the flashbacks that we’ve gone into. And everything from his injury and his relationship with Grace on the show, as well.
Michael: It always seemed clear to me what Mr. Finch was like. I don’t think there was a lot of experimentation required. I felt right about it when we shot the pilot. I had to think about the physical handicap carefully, because I knew if the show was a success, I’d be doing it for a long, long time.
But the character seemed fairly plain to me on the page, and of course it’s gotten, you know, richer and more nuanced as we’ve gone along and thought about it and lived in it and walked around with it. So it’s been, for me, a happy actor experience.
Almost everything on the show creeps up on me. You know, we - I kind of know whatever is in the script that’s being filmed at the moment and not much more, not much beyond that.
And it’s kind of the way I - it’s kind of the way I like it. I’m comfortable reacting to the scripts as they come and being focused on those episodes and not too much in the business of connecting the dots into the future.
On a potential crossover with Elementary
Michael: It would be tricky, though, to do a mashup of our show and another show, because they seem to be different worlds. In what world would that mashup take place? In the world of POI? In the world of Elementary? And then you have characters that, they might be like matter and antimatter. They might just implode when they got near each other.
I kind of feel like Sherlock Holmes is the Sherlock Holmes of Elementary, and Harold Finch is the Sherlock of Holmes of Person of Interest. And I don’t know what they would do together. I guess they would have to team up somehow, or maybe they’re mashed up together into one character somehow with two faces.
Greg: You know, if we went out of town, Michael, we could leave them the dog.
On what interests Michael about playing Finch
Michael: Well I think because the character has been evolving over the course of four seasons, I think there’s still a lot we don’t know about him. And I’m interested in that journey, moving forward.
I’m interested in the kinds of problem solving that the narrative imposes on Mr. Finch, you know, personal problems, philosophical problems, practical problems. There seems to be a fairly inexhaustible list of them, and its fun to tackle. And I don’t think we have, by any means, run out of material.
Greg: I think the interesting thing for us in terms of writing Harold’s character, Michael’s character, Harold Finch, is that, you know, there was so much - when Michael came to the show, people imbue so many different ideas on to him, because he played a villain on another show you might have heard of.
But his character was never that character on this show. It was in fact a character that endeavored to do something to better the world, to help change the world. And I think it’s become a burden in some ways to him. I think it’s an extremely heavy mantel to bear, particularly when he lost Ingram and he lost so many people close to him, including, you know, a personal life. His fiancé, he hasn’t been able to see her anymore. And I think it’s become a tremendous weight on Harold Finch’s character.
And I think we’d like to explore particularly this season is, what happens when someone, you know, is able to transfer some of that burden to others, but also when something so dramatic happens that there may become a shift in the character that we haven’t seen before.
On 'If-Then-Else' and other notable episodes
Michael: ('If-Then-Else') was certainly a really interesting and conceptual episode. I loved reading it. It was hard shooting, because there was so - it was repetitive, but with subtle differences every scene. That’s a unique experience in my television career to have shot an episode that was constructed that way.
Greg: I think it was, you know, an episode which sort of proved that this show can do, be a lot of different things. We can twist genre. It can be a straight ahead sort of number, case of the week, type show. It can be a paranoid thriller. This show, the great thing about this premise, it allows us to do so many things.
And, you know, I have a lot of favorite episodes, going back to the pilot. You know, I sort of - I loved Many Happy Returns. That was, for me, one of the first very emotional episodes where we understood more about when Harold Finch sort of first saw John Reese for the first time, as well as what happened to John Reese’s former fiancé.
So a lot of those episodes in the first season really stand out to me, because they were seminal in the sense of setting the tone for the relationships of the shows. And we’ve been able to play with a lot of them since, and we’re still having fun.
On what draws Michael to playing a character
Michael: I kind of go by whether the writing appeals to me and the character may be secondary, because I’m not looking to play a particular type or a particular quality or result. I just like to know that there’s going to be good language, you know, and a good atmosphere.
I responded to the pilot script for Person of Interest because of its setting and the darkness of it, the paranoia of it. And also that the character I was going to be asked to play was a person with a particular way of talking. I like that.
On Finch's dark prediction from the pilot
On Finch creating the Machine
Michael: I think that the roots of his interest in this Machine go back to his father’s condition. But then I think it took a turn after 9/11, when he had to get more serious about some other things. Some other issues preoccupied him.
I haven’t - I enjoy thinking about the timeline of Harold Finch, how his life went from something lighter to something darker, and about how he’s able to hold on to - I don’t know if I want to use the word ideals, but how he tries to hold on to some values that he’s had all along. But it’s a tricky business in his line of work and in the world that he lives in, a world darker and more violent than most people would believe.
On the show's use of surveillance and dark subject material
Greg: Well I certainly think there’s a dark quality of the show that we endeavor to, you know, imbue the show with. I think it's underneath. The mechanics of the show are very thought provoking. But I never think we’ve strayed from being an entertaining show.
And honestly, I think we’ve baffled a lot of people in broadcast, because, you know, often times people will, you know, when it comes to a broadcast television show, it becomes a certain amount of comfort food for them. And they become attached to the characters and they want that thing every week.
And then when we do things like kill off a character or veer into a little darker terrain, it startles people in a way that I think you get away with a lot more in cable. So we’re kind of like a show that’s in a zone right now where we feel like we’ve snuck in a lot of somewhat subversive ideas into what people can view as, you know, a procedural.
And procedural’s not a dirty word for me. I grew up, you know, writing NYPD Blue and was proud to call it a procedural. But there was a serialized component to that show as well that I thought was very thought provoking. And I think we’ve endeavored to do the same.One of the reasons I think we’re extremely about excited about this going to WGN or Netflix coming up is simply because this is a show that can have a certain amount of, you know, opacity if you don’t keep up with it, if you don’t understand what’s going on. And we’ve always been comfortable with that. We’d rather it be a show that, you know, stuck to your ribs than something that was just comfort food.
And I don’t know. I don’t know if that’s something that, you know, people find hard to keep up with, but I think availability has certainly been an obstacle. And now it will no longer.
On the idea of re-building The Machine without a moral code
Greg: You know, I think Harold Finch - one of the reasons we think of the Machine as a more moral entity, at least perhaps than Samaritan, is because we know that Harold Finch coded it. And I think Harold has always had an ambivalence about the creation of a god and has never quite trusted it in the sense that, you know, if this was something that he unleashed in the world, then a heavy burden falls upon him.
He’s tried everything in his power to create something that, you know, first do no harm. And I think what’s happening now is an emerging debate with Amy Acker’s character, Root, Samantha Groves, who’s telling him that is no longer enough, that the machine that he built is in dire straits unless they change it, in terms of reconstituting it. And it becomes a sort of a center around which we based this season.And I’m actually really excited about doing 13 episodes this year, because we get the ability to really go into that in depth and explore what that means. And I think we’re going to also see a side of Harold Finch that he’s kept at bay, because of his ambivalence about creating a god.
Michael: I think you’ve put your finger on what the big issue of the first few episodes of Season 5 is. If we are to revive the Machine -- and, of course, we would like to do that -- what kind of checks and balances will it include, if any? Must it be completely unfettered if it is to go head-to-head with Samaritan? Is that desirable? Where does that take us ultimately?
And it’s fun. It’ll be, you know, a battle of philosophies between Mr. Finch and Root, who has a different perspective. And that’s going to be one of the chief pleasures of Season 5.
On knowing the ending of the show
Greg: Jonah and I have talked about it. And we do know what the ending of the show is.
In television, you’re never guaranteed another day. So you have to, you know, dole these things out accordingly. And I think the premise of this show is large enough that, you know, we could go for more seasons than this one.
But, you know, given the situation we’re looking at right now, we have to be prepared to be nimble and compress story if we feel like it’s time to wind it up. And we have the ending that we want to tell.
On the show's 'science-fact' element
Greg: Well I think Michael and I have been dealing with this for a couple years now where, you know, the initial questions on the show were about the science fiction premise being somewhat far-fetched. And then the next thing you know we were on CNN or going to the Smithsonian, where they were asking us, “How did you know?”
We thought everybody knew. Certainly the Snowden revelations came along. And perhaps the more troubling thing, I think, is that the collective yawn of the public in terms of knowing that the government is watching and recording everything they’re writing and saying, digitally, but voluntarily giving up their information.
Because I think the creation of the atomic bomb, if anything of an analog in history that I could look for, for Harold Finch, it would probably be Oppenheimer and the ambivalence that he had about creating something that is such a monumental existential risk in the world and what that burden is like with an understanding that if we don’t do it someone else will. And I think that that’s the most compelling thing to me about the show and about Harold and what he’s created, and what he’s going to do with it going forward.
On potential other ongoing projects
Michael: I have to say that it’s kind of all-consuming. When we’re working on Person of Interest, you know, we’re scrambling to find time to have a private life or a family life, much less moonlight on anything else. So, yes, it’s kind of all you can do when it’s working.
On the idea of carrying on the show across multiple TV movies
Michael: I think it would be interesting to carry on this story in a different format, you know, maybe a shorter season or, as you said, fewer but longer episodes. I mean, all of those platforms are changing so much and everything’s more fragmented. It might be invigorating to not be staring down the barrel of 23 episodes every year.On the idea of a Person of Interest comic
Greg: That’s really intriguing. That’s pretty exciting. There’s certainly a genre aspect to the show that we’ve always embraced. You could even say a superhero quality to John Reese. And the premise of the show, you know, has somewhat of a - was once considered sci-fi, but apparently not anymore. It could be really cool.
I think, you know, what this show’s evolved from, you know, sort of being, you know, a paranoid thriller about the surveillance state in procedural clothing has now become more of a commentary almost on the burgeoning artificial superintelligence that we believe may emerge in the world in the coming years. So it can be a lot of different things, and I certainly think that would be an interesting possibility.
Michael: I think that would be fun. You know, I’m a big fan of comics and graphic novels, because I used to be an illustrator. So I love to see how people draw things. And I do feel like our show would really lend itself to a kind of graphicization, because I feel our characters have a kind of particular look about them that could translate onto paper in a good way.
We sometimes use illustrated storyboards when we’re shooting episodes, and I love looking at them, because I love the way they draw our characters, how they capture them in a few strokes. And, yes, I think a bunch of cool things could be done that way.
Person of Interest is now showing on WGN America (check your local listings) while Netflix currently houses the first three seasons, with season four arriving on September 22nd. Season five will air on CBS sometime in midseason.
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